Comments | 1angelette: Bechdel wa?

1angelette

Bechdel wa?

Jul 29, 2010 20:46

So my boyfriend and I have gotten in an argument about the Bechdel test. I think it's completely valid. He does not. Our main disagreement concerns Death Note (which, technically, passes with some conversations between Mrs. Yagami, Misa, and Sayu) and Lord of the Rings (which does not). He claims that despite this failure to pass the Bechdel test, ( Read more... )

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Comments 4

galfridian July 30 2010, 00:57:51 UTC

I don't know. It's iffy with Lord of the Rings. The entirety of Arwen's story is whether she knows what's best for her or if her father knows what's best for her (and if she's right, what's best for her is to be with Aragorn). Eowyn also falls in love with Aragorn, but is more distraught by the limitations imposed upon her because of her sex than she is by her unrequited feelings toward Aragorn. (There's also entire prophecy where she's awesome because she's NOT a man.) I think Lord of the Rings toes the line, and I agree that it ultimately fails, but I don't think Tolkien's intent was for the work to be sexist. He does, after all, show that Eowyn > many of the menfolk...Perhaps Eowyn and Arwen are intended as antithesis of each other?

darth_gojira July 30 2010, 02:09:09 UTC

LOTR is really hard to judge as far as sexism goes. Like a lot of 50's fiction, it toes the line between "somewhat empowered and important" and "sidelines and useless"

I would think that the Silmarillion would be less sexist, since Luthien, unlike Arwen, actually does things and we get to see a lot more characters.

prettypriestess July 30 2010, 10:31:22 UTC

Your other two commenters seem to have covered the bases pretty well, but LOTR is kind of an older story, and it's set, well, in Middle Earth, but it's a bajillion years ago when women's rights weren't really in vogue, y'know?

It's certainly better than a lot of fantasy fiction is known to be, and I'd say it's not really outright sexist, but it's really about the menfolk. Yes, Eowyn and Arwen get some attention, but they're not really the focus.

The Bechdel Test is a pretty good mark most of the time, but I'm inclined to give this one a pass, regardless, because no, it's not really meant with too many women in mind, but it's Tolkein.

anonymous August 7 2010, 07:53:57 UTC

The first three commenters forgot to mention Galadriel, who was one of the wisest and most powerful beings in Middle Earth. She was literally inches away from claiming the entire world for herself at one point ( ... )