Let’s be clear about what Spike’s priorities are. When he tells Buffy that he likes the world, he’s not just making that up to cloak his real motive in wanting to ally with her. His reasons for liking the world are real reasons, ones he’s thought up. He’s not parroting it. All else equal, Spike would rather there be a world than not. But he cares about Drusilla more. So when Drusilla is his girl and wants to destroy the world, he goes along with that just fine. It’s only when Drusilla is Angel’s girl and wants to destroy the world that he stops to notice that world-destruction is a pretty bad idea
I actually think it's a little more complicated than that. I took him seriously when he said that 'destroy the world' is big macho vampire-talk, but only every now and then does someone come along that might actually do it. Which doesn't mean that Spike's a good guy in all that. He loves mayhem and chaos as much as the next vampire. He loves big, splashy spectacles. I think he's speaking of a matter of degree though. He's more
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I'm sympathetic to your point. In fact, it was my starting position. I moved off of it, though, because that's just not how Spike comes across in Surprise/Innocence. The Judge is supposed to destroy all humans -- which would have a bad impact on Man U. dog racing, etc. But I also think Spike's reasons for caring about the world are right (and the shooting script has even more that makes it cleawr that Spike is independently concerned about saving the world) -- ergo my explanation, which is that when he stops to think about it he figures it out, but it's only when Dru is aligned with Angel that Spike has a reason to think about it.
I think there are two strings at work, which pull "the Spike" here:
One, Spike is not a very well developed character at this point - he is the interesting "queer" villain. He's loving, fun loving, boundaries crossing. That's it. His characterization (the development) really starts sometime around season 4/5.
He is the slayer of slayers. Yet, he hires the "eternal assassin" (order of Tarako) to do his work. He wants to destroy the world (Judge) - yet, not (Acathla).
The other string it, of course, the metaphor: Buffy's alllll alone. Her only ally is an untrustworthy thug who'd rather safe his own hide than stick around to do the work (i mean, we do see Spike taking out his frustrations with Angel on him when smashing an iron pipe into Angel over and over again... - just one other swing, when Dru's unconscious, would have made a world of a difference. But can't have that, it's Buffy's -lonely - moment).
So i think Maggie's explanation works best, without breaking the 4th wall.
I do wish Joss weren't quite so dead set on making Buffy a martyr, necessitating that he go to increasing lengths to construct a cross for him to nail her to. It's hard enough being a superhero as it is. Regularly crucifying her seems excessive.
Very thought-provoking and well laid out. I particularly enjoyed the Xander and Willow parts. The Buffy section was great, too, but in that way where reading it all laid out makes my heart hurt.
Buffy/Joyce just shatters me here. "Have you tried not being a Slayer?" Actually, yeah. Over and over and it always ended in tragedy.
fixing/healing with one grand gesture
Willow likes to call it a "cure" which I think is interesting. If soullessness is a disease, what's stopping them from curing all the vampires? They make the same assumption that Jenny does, that under it all, there's a baseline of Angel that wants his soul; I'm not so sure. I also always wonder a little at her not even referencing playing with it to try to get rid of the perfect happiness clause. I don't think it can be done, there's always a catch, but I'm not sure that would stop her from trying.
I really enjoy the Xander thoughts here, for all it's a pivotal episode for him I hadn't thought about it much.
Speaking of bad calls, the other angle here is Giles’ instruction to Buffy not to tell Joyce about her calling. Joyce’s inability to process this revelation in the midst of a crisis is a direct consequence of having this bombshell drop in the midst of a crisis. If she had learned about it at some moment when Buffy wasn’t urgently running out the door to save the world (and, yes, Buffy does have at least some days like that), then she could have gone through her denial at a more leisurely pace.I had been thinking about writing meta about Buffy's need to lie to her mother, imposed upon her by Giles, severely damaged their relationship, but you've said almost everything I wanted to right here
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I actually think it's a little more complicated than that. I took him seriously when he said that 'destroy the world' is big macho vampire-talk, but only every now and then does someone come along that might actually do it. Which doesn't mean that Spike's a good guy in all that. He loves mayhem and chaos as much as the next vampire. He loves big, splashy spectacles. I think he's speaking of a matter of degree though. He's more ( ... )
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One, Spike is not a very well developed character at this point - he is the interesting "queer" villain. He's loving, fun loving, boundaries crossing. That's it. His characterization (the development) really starts sometime around season 4/5.
He is the slayer of slayers. Yet, he hires the "eternal assassin" (order of Tarako) to do his work. He wants to destroy the world (Judge) - yet, not (Acathla).
The other string it, of course, the metaphor: Buffy's alllll alone. Her only ally is an untrustworthy thug who'd rather safe his own hide than stick around to do the work (i mean, we do see Spike taking out his frustrations with Angel on him when smashing an iron pipe into Angel over and over again... - just one other swing, when Dru's unconscious, would have made a world of a difference. But can't have that, it's Buffy's -lonely - moment).
So i think Maggie's explanation works best, without breaking the 4th wall.
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Very thought-provoking and well laid out. I particularly enjoyed the Xander and Willow parts. The Buffy section was great, too, but in that way where reading it all laid out makes my heart hurt.
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fixing/healing with one grand gesture
Willow likes to call it a "cure" which I think is interesting. If soullessness is a disease, what's stopping them from curing all the vampires? They make the same assumption that Jenny does, that under it all, there's a baseline of Angel that wants his soul; I'm not so sure. I also always wonder a little at her not even referencing playing with it to try to get rid of the perfect happiness clause. I don't think it can be done, there's always a catch, but I'm not sure that would stop her from trying.
I really enjoy the Xander thoughts here, for all it's a pivotal episode for him I hadn't thought about it much.
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It’s a long road before he’ll have real respect for both himself and the women he cares about.
Nicely said. Oh, Spike.
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