Standard disclaimer: I'll often speak of foreshadowing, but that doesn't mean I'm at all committing to the idea that there was some fixed design from the word go -- it's a short hand for talking about the resonances that end up in the text as it unspools.
Standard spoiler warning: The notes are written for folks who have seen all of BtVS and AtS.
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Comments 90
We’ll have to wait for The Prom, when Xander does a deeply human thing for Cordelia, and she accepts it, thereby getting real closure for both of them. Note the precedent! Cordy's as angry as she could ever be with Xander, he buys her a dress, she forgives him. This happens again with Angel in AtS Season 2, only he replaces the wardrobe that he stole from her and donated to charity. (Considering how poor Cordy was back in AtS Season 1, she broke her back to earn all those clothes and it was an incredibly insensitive move.) Anyways, there's a clothes = forgivness pattern here with Cordy. She appreciates gifts a lot. That's her language (probably because her parents bought her love) and Xander's sees how much she's yearning for that dress and makes it possible. He gives her what she wants and by doing so, sees her and acknowledges her as a person (he also covers for her in not letting anyone know she works at the dress shop, saving her pride). It's a very thoughtful moment for Xander and it shows that he really ( ... )
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I think the domestic abuse metaphor works really well in this regard as this is a not uncommon pattern for abusers to essentially guilt-trip their partner into staying with them. And, like Angel, they aren't always conniving and malevolent in doing so; they genuinely do need help. However, that help shouldn't be at the expense of another person's well-being (to throw some S6 in there, that's why Tara ultimately left Willow after Tabula Rasa. Willow clearly needed help, but it's not Tara's responsibility to put up with abuse in order to help her lover. Good on Tara).
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No, but he did torment her for months and traumatised the hell out of her. I think this one of those instances where Buffy’s remarkable strength and perseverance can work against her, because I think people can underestimate just how traumatic this was for the girl. She might have been the Slayer but she was still just 17 years old and the Buffy/Dru parallels are there for a reason. If Angelus had, had his way she would have ended up just as broken as Dru was and I don’t fault Buffy for being able to keep it together (and being handed the skills to defend herself) because Angelus sure as hell tried to break her ( ... )
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This. Angelus didn't turn Jenny into a gag gift to get at Giles. He did it to get at Buffy. From his point of view the possible outcomes were Giles getting himself killed, Giles becoming estranged from Buffy or Buffy realising that her negligence was killing her friends i.e. win, win, win. If you want to attack Buffy, attack the ones she loves (or even their fish) not her.
However, I don't think her telling him that she knows what he did because he did it to her is all self-absorption. It's not said as an objective assessment of the facts but as a way to try and get through to him. He's in despair because of all the victims he's created. Her telling him he did it to her is a way of saying that one of those victims he cares so much about is right there in front of him and he should bloody well listen to her. She's earned it. He doesn't, which is why I hate this scene so much if I take it seriously - the first time I saw it I was just rolling my eyes at the melodrama and the magic snow.
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Because, if you attack her directly - you'll loose, big time (something Angelus finds out the hard way).
Her telling him he did it to her is a way of saying that one of those victims he cares so much about is right there in front of him and he should bloody well listen to her. She's earned it. He doesn't, ...
Oh, yes! This is, in essence, the douchebaggery of one souled up Angel. Looking further down the lane: He uses Buffy as a stepping stone - like all of his victims.
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You asked for it - you shall receive: Get your first aid kit ready - i'll fight you every step of the way on this one. :-P
Xander’s move erases the sense that Buffy still has amends of her own to make. She never really does deal with the fact that her boyfriend caused grievous harm to those she loves.
Uh? It isn't Buffy's fault that her boyfriend is a douchebag (or murderer, to stay within the story). Buffy didn't murder anyone - that was still Angel. In the end, Buffy did what had to be done - running soulful Angel through with a sword.
If one is looking for ways to have Buffy needing to make amends, then it is about her keeping Angel's return a secret. But laying Angel's crimes on Buffy's shoulders is victim-blaming.
One could argue that we pay this out in season 8 when Giles finally pays the ultimate price for her ( ... )
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If Buffy did her job at the end of Innocence, Ms. Calendar and a bunch of other nameless folks would not have been killed. Buffy's reason for not doing her job was she couldn't kill her boyfriend. She prioritized her love life over the lives of others. I don't think that makes her a murderer. I do think it is something that should weigh on her enough to not be in such a hurry to risk doing it all over again in season 3. And she clearly was risking a repeat of Angelus.
It benefits Angel, as well as the slayer (the mystical warrior destined to die for the world. Slayer dreams...). Buffy herself only "benefits" insofar, as she believes (has to believe) in redemption. If Angel is another "lost cause", then her hesistation in eradicating him as early as "Surprise" is truly damning. As we learn ( ... )
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So i'll say just one thing:
I didn't even delve into the question of "Buffy's darkness": i merely touched and acknowledged her darkness by referring to Beaudelaire and Bataille.
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Xander doesn't know squat. He doesn't know what Buffy's life is like - nor does he want to know (for a very long time). Xander states as late as season 6 that he doesn't understand what it is like for Buffy, nor that he does want to understand. Compare/contrast his love life with Buffy's love life and it gets even more glaring: Xander betrays and hurts the women he says he loves (Cordy&Anya), while Buffy gives her all for the people she loves (even if she doesn't say the words) (Angel, Riley, Spike.) How in the hell is Xander any authority when it comes to
a) Buffy ('s life and duty)
b) Love (in the romantic sense)
????
Buffy has been so blinded by her angst-driven, all-consuming love for Angel that she’s just not registered what he’s done to others. He hasn’t murdered her. If all she ( ... )
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a) Buffy ('s life and duty)
b) Love (in the romantic sense)
????I think you're overselling Buffy as a lover to Riley and Spike (season six) here--which are the times when Xander was with Anya. But we'll discuss that when we get there. I can't speak for Maggie entirely. But I think her point with Xander is not that he is fair or that he is understanding, but the more narrow point that right on the fundamental point that Buffy is taking big risks on other people's lives because ( ... )
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I make a distinction here between Buffy's "feelings" (love) for Angel and her "needs" (her psychological structure). She takes the risks because of her needs (and less of her feelings ). To make the pain of season 2 go away, to make sense of falling in love with Angel in the first place, she needs Angel to do something worthwhile with his life, fighting the good fight, redeeming himself. If Angel just goes away/commits suicide/turns evil again, then indeed she did fall in love with nothing more than a monster (as is textual in this episode: "...then all you've ever been is a monster"). Then all he ever gave her was pain. Buffy needs healing from season 2. This is how she's trying to heal (if she succeeds is open for interpretation).
none of his other victims, besides perhaps Drusilla, are alive and in love with him. Again, i don't think her being in love with him is the deciding factor here (though it is certainly in the mix). She is "the survivor ( ... )
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