WE GET IT.
WE GET IT!
A Wincester (tries) to set the record straight | VERY unformal essay, just me rambling
ALL OPINIONS ARE MY OWN, SO IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, TOO BAD.
I know, I know, we've all been over this before - people are squicked by Wincest. We get it; it's what you get for Satan liking you so much and giving you your own layer of Hell.
But I stumbled across a board thread about the Sam/Dean aspect of fandom (Wincest - Yes or No?(TV.com)) and it makes me giggle that people have never heard of it. I don't think we're that quiet of a group and we do take over majority of the fandom (and growing each day!). Well, those are people that are not into fanfiction, I guess - I've seen it. It can be done. So, most people are against it - big deal? Nah. I get it completely. But this is what bothered me:
I never said I hated the homosexual community. I said I hated the slash community.
This is because the slash community works like so:
"OH MY LORD TWO MALE CHARACTERS?! MORE LIKE LOVERS JUST WAITING TO HAPPEN!!! MAN OH MAN AM I A GENIUS!"
Okay, I have never seen people slash two characters for the hell of it. And if you do, well you aren't lasting all that long. Why is Sam/Dean so popular? Because it works. People on the boards have pointed it out as "mental distress on a daily basis" and "the Winchesters aren't exactly normal siblings". Those are good points, but we - the fangirls - like to think it's based on the fact that they need each other. And yes, they do love each other.
Another thing that bothers me about the Wincest-haters is that they protest it so vehemently without ever thinking that we know it isn't canon and never will be. Like, we get it. We know that Sam and Dean are never going to get it on in the show and we can easily see both sides to the show - the underlying subtext (which, hello, is so there) and the PLATONIC BROTHERLY LOVE. We love it all - just, in our spare time, we'd rather see them fuck. But you see Wincest writers writing both Sam/Dean and gen. We are versatile.
And they get so squicked over it. IT'S NOT GOING AWAY: AVERT YOUR EYES AND DEAL WITH IT.
I hope that you don't have a brother, and if you do, I'm really sorry for him... euuuuuuuggghhh!!!
and
And I dont think applys here. I mean thats like say hey the Swasztikia is only a Nazi symbol. Look usually when people accuse somebody of something like this means they have a similar problem... Or is telling people that, means they will shut-up. And in the end isnt that all that matters?!
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention. I promise not to judge. I hope you and your brother Are very Happy...
I literally shook my head at this (and I want to throttle the last person). I think it's so sad that just because I enjoy watching Sam and Dean get it on, it doesn't mean I want to do it with my brother. And yes, I do have a brother and I would never ever ever ever ever (I repeat, EVER) think about doing half the stuff I've written about Sam and Dean to him.
I am not a creepy male pedophile in my parents basement; I am a sixteen year old girl in my parents house.
Personally, for me, if you're going to write a story where the characters are doing things so obviously different from what the characters on the tv show would actually do, then you shouldn't even be calling it fanfiction because you're obviously not a fan of the characters as they are on the show.
Fanfiction: is a broadly-defined term for fiction about characters or settings written by fans of the original work, rather than by the original creators. Just because I write Sam and Dean buttsexing doesn't mean I'm not a fan of the show and if you say otherwise, I'm going to cut off your head because I'm probably a bigger fan than you.
The instant I think fanfiction, the first thought in my head is: NOT CANON. It will never, ever be real - like, can you really take most of the stuff in fandom seriously? It's great fun, it is, but I will never think "Hey, I want to have sex with my brother now and after, I want to dress up as a guy, go hustling!"
Wincest is only bad if the wrong person is writing it.
I agree with this person (to a certain extent). You do get people who decide to take the leap and find the badly written Wincest stories (it's sad to admit, but they are out there). I was lucky enough to find potthead and mf_luder_xf first, so I was saved. I wish bad!fic would burn in a fiery tire explosion.
You can't use the "open mind argumet" to justify sex with your mother/father, brother/sister or for that matter killing someone, etc.
and
The thing about incest is that all the arguments I've ever heard against it are almost exactly the same arguments made against homosexuality. Is it morally wrong? Who decides morality? Is it "against nature"? Technically, so is homosexual sex in that it does not fulfill the mandate of reproduction.
I've seen this with homosexuality too - using a means of reason and comparision to show you just how wrong you are. But anyway, this is not about homosexuality. I know incest is "wrong" and but I do truly believe you should love whoever you want and be with them. In an epsiode of House M.D., two lovers came in sick with the same disease to find out that they are half-siblings. The girl demands to be away from her boyfriend/brother, but the boy? He is still in love with her.
Incest is "wrong" and homosexuality is "wrong" because it doesn't reproduce, but what happened to actually letting people just be in love? Like, Jesus H. There are people out there who are STRAIGHT and never have kids. Why don't you breathe down their necks for a bit?
I also think that when people think incest, they think hillbillies and rednecks and all that. Not entirely true - there is a married couple, in my town, with two kids who are second cousins. The kids are normal, have some learning problems, but all in all? They're fine. My dad even told me after a certain point, it doesn't really count.
In our society, thinking that someone's relationship is wrong automatically makes you a bigot or intolerant. It's like you can't be honestly sympathetic with a person's situation and still morally object to their relationship. This might have something to do with the fact that most people who morally object aren't at all sympathic, quite the reverse actually.
Exactly.
...of course, Sam/Dean from Supernatural. They are, as geekboygirl said, "intriguing" and "complicated", which makes for a good read.
GAH. YES. EXACTLY. We don't pair these two together because we secretly want to screw our parents, it's because of their CHARACTERS and their RELATIONSHIP and how well they ultimately work together. And as many people say: they break so beautifully. If the writing wasn't so damn good and so many talented people were in our fandom, I wouldn't still be here. Sam/Dean works and maybe you have to like it to understand it, but it's not always about them fucking each other because if you read closely, you can see the need the writers weave into the story and the sowrong, but they just fucking need it.
Another thing most people pin on us is that we don't keep Sam and Dean in character. To hell we do! We may enjoy buttsexing, but we are real damn picky about how our boys are portrayed. Yes, you don't see them professing their love for each other on a daily basis, but we have morphed what we do know (i.e. Dean's determination to do anything for his family) and made it work in stories.
This thread is so amusing... First of all, how can words be wrong? You may not agree with the morality of a story, that doesn't mean it's wrong, it means you don't share the opinions of it. Good stories are written to make us think about life, they're suppose to cross boundaries and make us view our lives from a different perspective. Personally I must say I think real life incest is totally gross, this doesn't mean I'd condemn anyone who had sex with their siblings, it just means I wont be having sex with any family members. And I don't see how suggesting two fictional characters having sex on paper would be gross?
I think this person is me. How can words be wrong? This person makes the best point. EVER.
All in all, this is for fun. I highly doubt people in fandom want to fuck their siblings or any other relative. We write these stories not just because we enjoy it, but because we want to show others how we see the boys in their epic love story. I don't care in the end if you support it or not - I'll keep living, engrossed in my fic while you stand on the sidelines and bitch about it, but some people can be really stupid about it.
So? Discuss. Did I totally kill it or was I half-way there? Add, take-away, DISCUSS.
A Wincester (tries) to set the record straight | VERY unformal essay, just me rambling
ALL OPINIONS ARE MY OWN, SO IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, TOO BAD.
I know, I know, we've all been over this before - people are squicked by Wincest. We get it; it's what you get for Satan liking you so much and giving you your own layer of Hell.
But I stumbled across a board thread about the Sam/Dean aspect of fandom (Wincest - Yes or No?(TV.com)) and it makes me giggle that people have never heard of it. I don't think we're that quiet of a group and we do take over majority of the fandom (and growing each day!). Well, those are people that are not into fanfiction, I guess - I've seen it. It can be done. So, most people are against it - big deal? Nah. I get it completely. But this is what bothered me:
I never said I hated the homosexual community. I said I hated the slash community.
This is because the slash community works like so:
"OH MY LORD TWO MALE CHARACTERS?! MORE LIKE LOVERS JUST WAITING TO HAPPEN!!! MAN OH MAN AM I A GENIUS!"
Okay, I have never seen people slash two characters for the hell of it. And if you do, well you aren't lasting all that long. Why is Sam/Dean so popular? Because it works. People on the boards have pointed it out as "mental distress on a daily basis" and "the Winchesters aren't exactly normal siblings". Those are good points, but we - the fangirls - like to think it's based on the fact that they need each other. And yes, they do love each other.
Another thing that bothers me about the Wincest-haters is that they protest it so vehemently without ever thinking that we know it isn't canon and never will be. Like, we get it. We know that Sam and Dean are never going to get it on in the show and we can easily see both sides to the show - the underlying subtext (which, hello, is so there) and the PLATONIC BROTHERLY LOVE. We love it all - just, in our spare time, we'd rather see them fuck. But you see Wincest writers writing both Sam/Dean and gen. We are versatile.
And they get so squicked over it. IT'S NOT GOING AWAY: AVERT YOUR EYES AND DEAL WITH IT.
I hope that you don't have a brother, and if you do, I'm really sorry for him... euuuuuuuggghhh!!!
and
And I dont think applys here. I mean thats like say hey the Swasztikia is only a Nazi symbol. Look usually when people accuse somebody of something like this means they have a similar problem... Or is telling people that, means they will shut-up. And in the end isnt that all that matters?!
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention. I promise not to judge. I hope you and your brother Are very Happy...
I literally shook my head at this (and I want to throttle the last person). I think it's so sad that just because I enjoy watching Sam and Dean get it on, it doesn't mean I want to do it with my brother. And yes, I do have a brother and I would never ever ever ever ever (I repeat, EVER) think about doing half the stuff I've written about Sam and Dean to him.
I am not a creepy male pedophile in my parents basement; I am a sixteen year old girl in my parents house.
Personally, for me, if you're going to write a story where the characters are doing things so obviously different from what the characters on the tv show would actually do, then you shouldn't even be calling it fanfiction because you're obviously not a fan of the characters as they are on the show.
Fanfiction: is a broadly-defined term for fiction about characters or settings written by fans of the original work, rather than by the original creators. Just because I write Sam and Dean buttsexing doesn't mean I'm not a fan of the show and if you say otherwise, I'm going to cut off your head because I'm probably a bigger fan than you.
The instant I think fanfiction, the first thought in my head is: NOT CANON. It will never, ever be real - like, can you really take most of the stuff in fandom seriously? It's great fun, it is, but I will never think "Hey, I want to have sex with my brother now and after, I want to dress up as a guy, go hustling!"
Wincest is only bad if the wrong person is writing it.
I agree with this person (to a certain extent). You do get people who decide to take the leap and find the badly written Wincest stories (it's sad to admit, but they are out there). I was lucky enough to find potthead and mf_luder_xf first, so I was saved. I wish bad!fic would burn in a fiery tire explosion.
You can't use the "open mind argumet" to justify sex with your mother/father, brother/sister or for that matter killing someone, etc.
and
The thing about incest is that all the arguments I've ever heard against it are almost exactly the same arguments made against homosexuality. Is it morally wrong? Who decides morality? Is it "against nature"? Technically, so is homosexual sex in that it does not fulfill the mandate of reproduction.
I've seen this with homosexuality too - using a means of reason and comparision to show you just how wrong you are. But anyway, this is not about homosexuality. I know incest is "wrong" and but I do truly believe you should love whoever you want and be with them. In an epsiode of House M.D., two lovers came in sick with the same disease to find out that they are half-siblings. The girl demands to be away from her boyfriend/brother, but the boy? He is still in love with her.
Incest is "wrong" and homosexuality is "wrong" because it doesn't reproduce, but what happened to actually letting people just be in love? Like, Jesus H. There are people out there who are STRAIGHT and never have kids. Why don't you breathe down their necks for a bit?
I also think that when people think incest, they think hillbillies and rednecks and all that. Not entirely true - there is a married couple, in my town, with two kids who are second cousins. The kids are normal, have some learning problems, but all in all? They're fine. My dad even told me after a certain point, it doesn't really count.
In our society, thinking that someone's relationship is wrong automatically makes you a bigot or intolerant. It's like you can't be honestly sympathetic with a person's situation and still morally object to their relationship. This might have something to do with the fact that most people who morally object aren't at all sympathic, quite the reverse actually.
Exactly.
...of course, Sam/Dean from Supernatural. They are, as geekboygirl said, "intriguing" and "complicated", which makes for a good read.
GAH. YES. EXACTLY. We don't pair these two together because we secretly want to screw our parents, it's because of their CHARACTERS and their RELATIONSHIP and how well they ultimately work together. And as many people say: they break so beautifully. If the writing wasn't so damn good and so many talented people were in our fandom, I wouldn't still be here. Sam/Dean works and maybe you have to like it to understand it, but it's not always about them fucking each other because if you read closely, you can see the need the writers weave into the story and the sowrong, but they just fucking need it.
Another thing most people pin on us is that we don't keep Sam and Dean in character. To hell we do! We may enjoy buttsexing, but we are real damn picky about how our boys are portrayed. Yes, you don't see them professing their love for each other on a daily basis, but we have morphed what we do know (i.e. Dean's determination to do anything for his family) and made it work in stories.
This thread is so amusing... First of all, how can words be wrong? You may not agree with the morality of a story, that doesn't mean it's wrong, it means you don't share the opinions of it. Good stories are written to make us think about life, they're suppose to cross boundaries and make us view our lives from a different perspective. Personally I must say I think real life incest is totally gross, this doesn't mean I'd condemn anyone who had sex with their siblings, it just means I wont be having sex with any family members. And I don't see how suggesting two fictional characters having sex on paper would be gross?
I think this person is me. How can words be wrong? This person makes the best point. EVER.
All in all, this is for fun. I highly doubt people in fandom want to fuck their siblings or any other relative. We write these stories not just because we enjoy it, but because we want to show others how we see the boys in their epic love story. I don't care in the end if you support it or not - I'll keep living, engrossed in my fic while you stand on the sidelines and bitch about it, but some people can be really stupid about it.
So? Discuss. Did I totally kill it or was I half-way there? Add, take-away, DISCUSS.