Book 58: Twilight
Book 57 -- Twilight by Stephenie Meyer
Attendees:
Amy Marr
Ainsley
Jami Walsh
Bethany Salek
Sarah Jay
Carol Conti
Nick Conti
Giana Conti
Enjoyment:
Amy: Loved It
Carol: Liked It
Nick: Really Liked It.
Bethany: Liked It, but not enough sex
Sarah: Loved It as entertainment, not as literature
Jami: Loved It
S: In terms of character development and plotting, lacked somewhat, but really liked it and bought the next book the following day
A: liked pacing
B: thought it was 100 pages too long
J: no problem with pacing
S: book was edited for h.s. audience
J: too much emphasis on Romeo & Juliet style.
S: constant theme of classic romance in old literary styles, the "timeless couple" but it did hit you over the head
N: story told from Bella's POV, who is a fan of those genres, through her lens
A: applauds Nick
J: that's the English teacher in Nick, A disagrees, also an immaturity in the author's writing early on, not seen in later books.
S: brings up question of is Bella a "Mary Sue"
J: thought Bella's flaws were endearing
A: thought they were annoying b/c it came across as "helpless maiden"
J: flaws emphasize how hard it is for Bella to fit in
S: she's a foil
J: b/c it's from Bella's perspective, everything is exaggerated b/c it's h.s.
A: danger Bella gets into is beyond the normal stuff, she gets drawn into bad situations like in the alley. Theme throughout series, too contrived, wants a strong female character.
J: thinks Bella is strong - has her own mind, strong willed
N: a bad example can be a good example, if discussed
A: Bella is very strong in other ways, very mature in taking care of others, but her own self-image is poor
N: typical of h.s. girl
J: typical of someone who is good at taking care of others b/c you tend to put yourself on the back burner.
S: mothers identify with Bella, b/c they put their family first. Reflects it's written by a middle-aged mother.
1. Significance of Cover & Quote from Genesis
apple = fruit of knowledge concept
B: concept of layers - apple is a human fruit source for vampires
A: tree of knowledge, good v. evil.
2. Who is your favorite secondary character
A: Alice
*discussed use of Jacob as a plot device*
3 Did it change your view of vampires?
B: has read a lot of vampire literature, liked how Edward could go out in modified light
N: Meyer kept little of the vampire traditions
J: loved Edward's frustration that he couldn't hear Bella's thoughts.
N: Edward is reliant on that talent
A: interesting that difft. vampires have difft. skills
B: there are series on vampires having certain qualities
4. Meyer says concept of choice is important. How does book reflect that?
B: Bella chose to move
S: Edward realizes Bella's choice isn't "normal"
A: bothered Edward that Bella's choice made her unhappy
B: but vampires make choice not to feed on humans
J: that doesn't make them unhappy
S: makes that happy to preserve humanity, although it does cause pain
J: they are making choice to feel good about themselves
S: choices of Cullen family, it is a choice, not entirely selfless, but they fight against natural instinct b/c they feel a responsibility and make efforts to mix with humans
B: is self-preservation, they will be outed if feeding on humans
N: Edward sacrifices when he's with Bella
A: Cullens are repeating cycles of their life
N: they shift it around for variety
S: Edward didn't have a choice, but we don't see it as much in Twilight b/c it's Bella's perspective. He does have internal conflict as his heart as made choice for him.
J: liked how Edward picked answers out of teacher's head
S: they make choice to live a "human" life - it allows them to thrive
A: Edward chooses to be with Bella, even though he knows it can end badly
J: Edward didn't have a choice, it was an epic love
S: future books show Edward's battle about his love/passion for Bella
A: liked it bothered Edward that he can see other boy's fantasies about Bella
N: Edward can't do anything with Bella himself, it will end in her death
J: liked how Bella played against Edward, knowing Edward's characteristics of being able to listen in.
A: enjoyed blood typing scene, made her wonder if there were other parts of Bella that were unexplained - seemed inevitable she would become vampire
5. What about Edward as a role model for young men?
A: likes Edward's self-restraint
J: doesn't think it comes across as strongly in Twilight as in other books.
S: he is a gentlemen - he's not rude or mean to Bella, he's silent. He tries to give Bella outs from their relationship
N: he wants to give Bella choices.
6. Did Carlisle do the right thing of making Edward into vampire. Was it selfish?
A: yes and no. It was selfish
J: he was fulfilling a last request of Edward's mother
N: did it because he could get away with it.
J: he was looking for a companion
N: it was a dangerous thing, he hadn't done it before
S: interesting he chooses to change people who are going to die anyway
J: his religious background prohibits him from taking a life, unless it is already gone
7. Would it appeal to you to live forever?
A, J, S: No
N: hard to say
8. Does the book give unrealistic expectations to girls above boys?
A: makes boys look like they are pigs, so it is realistic. Boys attracted to the new girl in town for a physical reason.
B: typical of a small town - a new girl is different.
S: b/c it's reason as an epic romance, it does set unrealistic expectations
J: talks about couples who are together
9. Edward is attracted to Bella by her smell. Does it make the love less admirable?
J: no, b/c attraction is based on pheromones
N: but it's attraction, not love
N: poorly worded question, move on
10. Is Edward too perfect?
A. Surprised Edward was so manly despite being 17.
S: He does look like a teenager as the youngest of the vampires
J: Thought he was very pretty-boy teenager.
11. Can you identify with Bella?
S: with her embarrassment, her desire not to stand out. Classic introvert. She sometimes made decisions that were hard to identify with.
A: She made poor decisions, didn't heed Edward
N: She is impulsive
S: She doesn't think things through
J: She is mature in some aspects but not others, she is a teenager.
12. Are Billy's warnings well-intentioned or sinister?
A, J, S: Hard to answer having read other books
A: Initially thought they were harmless.
N: Billy knows the truth, Jacob thinks it's just crazy talk.
S: Provides foreshadowing of danger of Edward.
A: actions speak louder than words, can't recognize danger of Edward. Bella sees Edward in a different light.
N: Very typical of a teenager to brush off the advice of an older person.
*Discussed characterization of Rosalie as a cold, unlikable person from Bella's perspective, although she is the voice of reason about the dangers, but is that a manifestation of her anger about her life as a vampire
*Discussed other vampire traditions and what characteristics they have*
*Discussed "Twilight"*
A: Safest time of day for vampires
S: Their imprisonment from the day has eased up
A: Thought of it as twilight as the beginning of the end for Bella.
J: It's a beginning and an end
*Discussed the "coldness" of Edward*
B: thought it was weird Bella liked to kiss cold lips
S: wondered how "cold" Edward really was - what temperature? Scientifically you wonder.
J: he is described as a "block of ice"
N: does Edward always stay cold
conversation ended because Bethany was cold
Next Book and Meeting Time & Place: TBD
Attendees:
Amy Marr
Ainsley
Jami Walsh
Bethany Salek
Sarah Jay
Carol Conti
Nick Conti
Giana Conti
Enjoyment:
Amy: Loved It
Carol: Liked It
Nick: Really Liked It.
Bethany: Liked It, but not enough sex
Sarah: Loved It as entertainment, not as literature
Jami: Loved It
S: In terms of character development and plotting, lacked somewhat, but really liked it and bought the next book the following day
A: liked pacing
B: thought it was 100 pages too long
J: no problem with pacing
S: book was edited for h.s. audience
J: too much emphasis on Romeo & Juliet style.
S: constant theme of classic romance in old literary styles, the "timeless couple" but it did hit you over the head
N: story told from Bella's POV, who is a fan of those genres, through her lens
A: applauds Nick
J: that's the English teacher in Nick, A disagrees, also an immaturity in the author's writing early on, not seen in later books.
S: brings up question of is Bella a "Mary Sue"
J: thought Bella's flaws were endearing
A: thought they were annoying b/c it came across as "helpless maiden"
J: flaws emphasize how hard it is for Bella to fit in
S: she's a foil
J: b/c it's from Bella's perspective, everything is exaggerated b/c it's h.s.
A: danger Bella gets into is beyond the normal stuff, she gets drawn into bad situations like in the alley. Theme throughout series, too contrived, wants a strong female character.
J: thinks Bella is strong - has her own mind, strong willed
N: a bad example can be a good example, if discussed
A: Bella is very strong in other ways, very mature in taking care of others, but her own self-image is poor
N: typical of h.s. girl
J: typical of someone who is good at taking care of others b/c you tend to put yourself on the back burner.
S: mothers identify with Bella, b/c they put their family first. Reflects it's written by a middle-aged mother.
1. Significance of Cover & Quote from Genesis
apple = fruit of knowledge concept
B: concept of layers - apple is a human fruit source for vampires
A: tree of knowledge, good v. evil.
2. Who is your favorite secondary character
A: Alice
*discussed use of Jacob as a plot device*
3 Did it change your view of vampires?
B: has read a lot of vampire literature, liked how Edward could go out in modified light
N: Meyer kept little of the vampire traditions
J: loved Edward's frustration that he couldn't hear Bella's thoughts.
N: Edward is reliant on that talent
A: interesting that difft. vampires have difft. skills
B: there are series on vampires having certain qualities
4. Meyer says concept of choice is important. How does book reflect that?
B: Bella chose to move
S: Edward realizes Bella's choice isn't "normal"
A: bothered Edward that Bella's choice made her unhappy
B: but vampires make choice not to feed on humans
J: that doesn't make them unhappy
S: makes that happy to preserve humanity, although it does cause pain
J: they are making choice to feel good about themselves
S: choices of Cullen family, it is a choice, not entirely selfless, but they fight against natural instinct b/c they feel a responsibility and make efforts to mix with humans
B: is self-preservation, they will be outed if feeding on humans
N: Edward sacrifices when he's with Bella
A: Cullens are repeating cycles of their life
N: they shift it around for variety
S: Edward didn't have a choice, but we don't see it as much in Twilight b/c it's Bella's perspective. He does have internal conflict as his heart as made choice for him.
J: liked how Edward picked answers out of teacher's head
S: they make choice to live a "human" life - it allows them to thrive
A: Edward chooses to be with Bella, even though he knows it can end badly
J: Edward didn't have a choice, it was an epic love
S: future books show Edward's battle about his love/passion for Bella
A: liked it bothered Edward that he can see other boy's fantasies about Bella
N: Edward can't do anything with Bella himself, it will end in her death
J: liked how Bella played against Edward, knowing Edward's characteristics of being able to listen in.
A: enjoyed blood typing scene, made her wonder if there were other parts of Bella that were unexplained - seemed inevitable she would become vampire
5. What about Edward as a role model for young men?
A: likes Edward's self-restraint
J: doesn't think it comes across as strongly in Twilight as in other books.
S: he is a gentlemen - he's not rude or mean to Bella, he's silent. He tries to give Bella outs from their relationship
N: he wants to give Bella choices.
6. Did Carlisle do the right thing of making Edward into vampire. Was it selfish?
A: yes and no. It was selfish
J: he was fulfilling a last request of Edward's mother
N: did it because he could get away with it.
J: he was looking for a companion
N: it was a dangerous thing, he hadn't done it before
S: interesting he chooses to change people who are going to die anyway
J: his religious background prohibits him from taking a life, unless it is already gone
7. Would it appeal to you to live forever?
A, J, S: No
N: hard to say
8. Does the book give unrealistic expectations to girls above boys?
A: makes boys look like they are pigs, so it is realistic. Boys attracted to the new girl in town for a physical reason.
B: typical of a small town - a new girl is different.
S: b/c it's reason as an epic romance, it does set unrealistic expectations
J: talks about couples who are together
9. Edward is attracted to Bella by her smell. Does it make the love less admirable?
J: no, b/c attraction is based on pheromones
N: but it's attraction, not love
N: poorly worded question, move on
10. Is Edward too perfect?
A. Surprised Edward was so manly despite being 17.
S: He does look like a teenager as the youngest of the vampires
J: Thought he was very pretty-boy teenager.
11. Can you identify with Bella?
S: with her embarrassment, her desire not to stand out. Classic introvert. She sometimes made decisions that were hard to identify with.
A: She made poor decisions, didn't heed Edward
N: She is impulsive
S: She doesn't think things through
J: She is mature in some aspects but not others, she is a teenager.
12. Are Billy's warnings well-intentioned or sinister?
A, J, S: Hard to answer having read other books
A: Initially thought they were harmless.
N: Billy knows the truth, Jacob thinks it's just crazy talk.
S: Provides foreshadowing of danger of Edward.
A: actions speak louder than words, can't recognize danger of Edward. Bella sees Edward in a different light.
N: Very typical of a teenager to brush off the advice of an older person.
*Discussed characterization of Rosalie as a cold, unlikable person from Bella's perspective, although she is the voice of reason about the dangers, but is that a manifestation of her anger about her life as a vampire
*Discussed other vampire traditions and what characteristics they have*
*Discussed "Twilight"*
A: Safest time of day for vampires
S: Their imprisonment from the day has eased up
A: Thought of it as twilight as the beginning of the end for Bella.
J: It's a beginning and an end
*Discussed the "coldness" of Edward*
B: thought it was weird Bella liked to kiss cold lips
S: wondered how "cold" Edward really was - what temperature? Scientifically you wonder.
J: he is described as a "block of ice"
N: does Edward always stay cold
conversation ended because Bethany was cold
Next Book and Meeting Time & Place: TBD