Comments | _rp_zeal_: I see red when...

_rp_zeal_

I see red when...

Jun 10, 2005 20:19

The 'Does JKR want us to hate Draco?' thread was probably one of the longest running Draco discussion (with many otherwisely titled spin-offs) in recent HPFGU history. My own view on this is that Rowling has not wanted her readers to hate Draco- the way the majority of HP fanbase do Umbridge, for example- but she did expect the general readership ( Read more... )

Comments 18

samiancha June 11 2005, 03:41:03 UTC

no one has yet been able to provide me with evidence from canon that he is more timid than an average kid his age either

"It is better to be a coward for a minute than dead for the rest of your life." Irish Proverb

(^-^)

_rp_zeal_ June 12 2005, 02:45:43 UTC

Hey, great advice too :P I don't get the notion that people should be brave about *everything*, isn't it more like, driven by the fear of not being brave?

merrymelody June 12 2005, 09:29:06 UTC

Really. Like in the GoF chapter we're reading, it's ever so subtly asserted ;) how little Harry cares about physical pain and how he's so brave really OMG!11 but doesn't want to tell anyone about his dream because he's scared they'll look down on him - um, is that really bravery?

sistermagpie June 12 2005, 21:42:31 UTC

I remember hearing once that Demi Moore didn't get novacaine at the dentist, just toughed it out. Having had extensive dental work I thought this was the stupidest thing I'd ever heard.

Anyway, the thing was that this was said to show how she was so tough and not scared of anything. And I remember everybody I knew who read it, when the person said, "She doesn't even get novacaine at the dentist--she's not scared of anything!" added "not scared of anything...except novacaine."

sistermagpie June 11 2005, 04:04:55 UTC

What I would hate the most I guess, is for it to turn out that the anti-Dracoers after all have had arrived at the right conclusions, even though they had used the poorest logics to get there.Welcome to my fear. I mean, I realize that he could very well come to a bad end, but there's nothing stupid about not seeing him as fit for anything else as he stands. I read just some of the posts in that thread and just got completely annoyed--of course, it didn't help that iirc the ones I read were all the usual crap projecting onto people who liked to character to explain to the world why we liked him ( ... )

sistermagpie June 11 2005, 04:09:35 UTC

p.s. And of course, it's hard to find someone whose willing to look at these things, really. For instance, like you said, Crabbe and Goyle may be there to signal that Draco won't do anything about them, but they are not actually the enforcers people describe them as. Nor does Draco not act when they're not around--not in the least, really.

The trouble is, if you point this out, or point out that Harry is rarely alone when facing off against Draco either (Ron and Hermione are "loyal friends" instead of goons), suddenly you're claiming Harry and Draco are the same and morally equal.

_rp_zeal_ June 12 2005, 03:28:46 UTC

The trouble is, if you point this out, or point out that Harry is rarely alone when facing off against Draco either (Ron and Hermione are "loyal friends" instead of goons), suddenly you're claiming Harry and Draco are the same and morally equal.

It's the digitalbinary age, you are either on this pole or the other! *throws arms in air in mock celebration* Funny how us Draco apologetics (like it or not, that's how we are seen in this fandom ;P) often need to begin a meta post with disclaimers like: I read the books and liked Draco before Tom Felton was cast; no I'm not fan of leatherpant!Draco; no I wasn't brainwashed by the Draco Trilogy; no I'm not approving racism... While I'm actually beginning to think that the Gryffindor fans should be making similar disclaimers (just change the actor/fanon stereotype/forms of prejudice) before I turn tail and run from their towering righteousness :D

merrymelody June 11 2005, 17:51:15 UTC

What I would hate the most I guess, is for it to turn out that the anti-Dracoers after all have had arrived at the right conclusions, even though they had used the poorest logics to get there.

Yes, and sadly that kind of thing seems to happen quite frequently here (for instance, pre-OotP Fanon!Ginny being pretty similiar to OotP!Ginny) I guess using poor logic is helpful when analysing JKR's work! ;)

"To a certain Ms. Radcliffe" was snappish IMOHa! I bet that annoyed the shit out of her, especially since she's always saying how no-one likes poor Danny-kins/Harry (...Can I have some of that crack you're smoking, Jo ( ... )

merrymelody June 11 2005, 18:07:34 UTC

I liked this post, though, because the dragon thing always bugged me for much the same reasons (and interestingly, like the whole Dudley/cake thing is something people often seem to mix up with movie!canon - in a total non-fanon, unlike-Slytherin-fangurlz!111 way, of course) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/129742
And hey, Magpie's recced in there somewhere! :)

_rp_zeal_ June 12 2005, 03:42:42 UTC

Yeah, I've always read the dragon scene pretty much the same way that poster did too. Since I was yet a devoted Draco apologetic at the time, thought I was being rather unbiased... Or, I was simply reading it all wrong again X-D!

sistermagpie June 12 2005, 22:07:31 UTC

It's kind of silly the way people think Slytherin fans take things too seriously when you see the way Draco's spoken about by those who dislike him. You can hear the contempt dripping off people when they describe how he so "clearly" bought his way onto the team (um, actually JKR hasn't made that clear because it doesn't really hold up) or acted like a wuss in front of Crouch after being bounced around ( ... )

Thread 7

cook32 June 13 2005, 04:18:46 UTC

i didn't read 'does jkr want us to hate draco' post... cos it really doesn't concern me ( ... )

_rp_zeal_ June 13 2005, 15:15:15 UTC

1/ Draco is a 'coward'

In the movie he is. In the books? I think he's pretty average...

2/ Draco is a 'racist'.

I have problem seeing the conflicts between wizards/muggle-borns as fundamentally the same as conflicts between ethnic groups. But I do agree Draco's 'mudbloods' comments are essentially racist slurs. What I don't see is how he allegedly bases his like/dislike of people on their blood...

cook32 June 14 2005, 08:22:43 UTC

"In the movie he is. In the books? I think he's pretty average..."
you're right, that's why i said you could say he's just being 'sensible'... and i sometimes wonder why it seems exaggerated in the movies, do you think they did it on purpose?

"I have problem seeing the conflicts between wizards/muggle-borns as fundamentally the same as conflicts between ethnic groups."
that's why strictly speaking i don't see draco as a racist...

"But I do agree Draco's 'mudbloods' comments are essentially racist slurs."
that's the difficult bit... the comment itself definitely sound like a racist slur.. but somehow i don't think draco is saying that exclusively to mean it as a racist comment... to me, he's using the phrase more like a general kind of name calling (putting down others), not saying that is a good thing... i'd be surprised, if he says it purely because he seriously think muggle borns are 'inferior'... but then again, i'm bias ^^

_rp_zeal_ June 14 2005, 15:17:00 UTC

to me, he's using the phrase more like a general kind of name calling (putting down others)

Yes. He finds(not always successfully, btw)people's weak spots and attack where(he hopes)it hurts.

but then again, i'm bias ^^

And I'm the mother of all biases ;P That's okay, as long as we acknowledge the bias and do not make claims to perfect objectivity, I suppose?