OotP Chapter 37 - The Lost Prophecy

[cheeringcharm]

The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches...born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies...and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not...and either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives...the one with the power to

Comments

[cadesama]

I really, really dislike this chapter. And one of the biggest things I dislike is that Dumbledore's speech, intended for Harry's benefit (supposedly), is conducted entirely on Dumbledore's terms. Harry doesn't want to be there, so Dumbledore locks him in and forces the issue. I really think Harry would have been better served if he'd been allowed to go down to the Hospital Wing, get checked out, and hover over his friends anxiously rather than being shunted to the side while Dumbledore dealing with Fudge. Just because a cursory looks doesn't show any injuries, that doesn't mean Harry shouldn't have been check by someone with a medical degree -- good thing he's not actually concussed, or in shock. It really comes down to control, as far as I can see. Dumbledore couldn't deal with both Harry and Fudge at the same time, but he didn't want anyone else to deal with them before him. Too bad people don't come with pause buttons, eh, Albus?

"as Hermione had said, banking on Harry's love of playing the hero" -- Harry, that's not what

[cadesama]

And one of the biggest things I dislike is that Dumbledore's speech, intended for Harry's benefit (supposedly), is conducted entirely on Dumbledore's terms. Harry doesn't want to be there, so Dumbledore locks him in and forces the issue.

Yeah, I see it as another prove (one of many) that Dumbledore is not going to change is ways or learn from his mistakes (as in realise he should consider people's feelings). After a year of keeping Harry in the dark, when he would have really wanted to listen, he forces him to listen when he doesn't want to and really is not in the right emotional state to hear. Plus it's another prove that Dumbledoer doesn't give a damn about Harry's feelings, when he doesn't show any respect for his grief.

[house_elf_44]

...when he would have really wanted to listen, he forces him to listen when he doesn't want to and really is not in the right emotional state to hear. Plus it's another prove that Dumbledoer doesn't give a damn about Harry's feelings, when he doesn't show any respect for his grief.

I'm not saying I'm totally happy with the way things went, but, Dumbledore did get Harry to stop blaming himself entirely, and took most of the blame himself, and inadvertently put some on Snape, too. I wouldn't have liked it if Harry continued thinking he was solely responsible for Sirius' death. And the sooner that was done the better.

[cadesama]

I just . . . I don't believe that's why Dumbledore did it. There really wasn't any perfect solution there, but the way Dumbledore handled it makes my skin itch. It feels like he decided to rip the band aid off, not to keep things from festering like in GoF, but because he couldn't trust himself to do it if he waited any longer. And this time there was no Mrs. Weasley to hug Harry, so we're left with the unvarnished results of Dumbledore's speech, which I think is pretty bad for Harry.

[house_elf_44]

I can't decide if Dumbledore has been in his office since his confrontation with Fudge or not. The instruments are repaired, but the portrait behind the desk, which curiously is sitting on a thronelike chair, makes it sound like he hasn't been there. Don't people usually reserve that spot for ancestors? Could this be a royal ancestor of Dumbledore's?

After reading lots of fanfics, I now have it firmly in my mind that Ron and Hermione will fully recover from their wounds.

When Harry thought about never having asked Sirius about watching him play Quidditch, that got me. That's one of the worst parts of loosing a loved one - the things you wish you could ask them.

Dumbledore said "suffering like this proves you are still a man. This pain is part of being human." As opposed to what? I think the word still throws me

[cadesama]

Dumbledore said "suffering like this proves you are still a man. This pain is part of being human." As opposed to what? I think the word still throws me.

It might be a clue regarding Harry's connection with Voldemort, since Voldemort is no longer truly human.

And how did Kreacher know to distract Sirius at that time? I had thought Harry calling #12 was the signal it was a go, but Kreacher had already gotten Sirius out of the way.

I think Kreacher knew they were moving that day. I don't think there was any communication between him and Narcissa as to when the vision had been sent that day, but it's possible. Anyway, I think Kreacher knew the vision would be in the afternoon and hurt Buckbeak badly enough that Sirius would be dealing with it for hours, rather than getting him out of the room momentarily.

Hang on, they knew teaching Harry Occlumency would further open Harry's mind to Voldemort? Would that be the part where they try to get in so Harry can try to block? Maybe they expected this risk would diminish as he practiced.

[house_elf_44]

It might be a clue regarding Harry's connection with Voldemort, since Voldemort is no longer truly human.

It's probably what he meant but I think it's not very smart of him to think that Voldemort, eveh though isn't truly human, doesn't feel pain. I think that pain is at least one of the things that made him the way he is. It doesn't excuse Voldemrot, of course, he is pure evil, but I think this evil is still fed by the pain from his childhood. So I agree with Dumbledore that his pain is normal and human thing to feel, but I don't think it proves anything.

[cadesama]

Yeah. I don't know if Voldemort feels pain over loss or suffering of others, which may be what Dumbledore meant (compassion litterally means to "suffer with", after all). But Voldemort definitely feels pain about other things. It's an awfully strange thing to say to comfort someone, no matter what he meant, though.

[vikkala]

I don't know, I guess I'm one of the only ones who cried through almost this entire chapter! I'm not angry at Dumbledore, I feel bad that he knows what monumental mistakes he made by putting off telling Harry the whole truth. I guess you could look at it a couple of different ways; he's coming off as condescending or he really feels all those feelings as he's describing Harry's pain. I felt every word of it. As someone who's lost a loved one suddenly, I completely related to every word of the unspeakable anger and sorrow that I thought they were both feeling.

[cadesama]

Oh, you're definitely not alone. I've cried every time I read this chapter (and I've re-read it a lot) except this time, when I got to distract myself by writing mean comments about Dumbledore. I wasn't actually that angry at Dumbledore the first time I read it, I was too depressed over Harry for that. But when I processed it, and realized all of the things he'd said -- well, I don't care if he genuinely means all the things he's saying. Most of what he's said is more horrifying if he means it (like telling Harry he knew about the Dursleys' abuse and that it had to happen that way) than if he doesn't. It's the way everything is said more than what is said, though. Truth is the most valued tool of the manipulator, and Dumbledore uses it to the fullest.

[vikkala]

You've got a point...never thought of it that way. Now that I think about it, it really pisses me off he knew about the abuse and did nothing. Bears watching how it plays out. It will be interesting to find out why he let it happen for so long, and why he lets Snape get away with it constantly. It really burns me how he's allowed to be so unfair and abusive.

I've always thought a great rebellion on the part of all of Gryffindor House would be to go on a campaign to lose as many points as possible in protest to teachers like Snape. If the object of house points is honor and achievment, there's no honor in kissing Snape's ass to get them, or at least protect the one's you've already earned. Why not thumb thier noses at the whole system with a spectacular loss? End of rant...

another angle on DD speech

[rhiandra]

As I read OotP the first time, I kept saying to myself (as others have mentioned) how much worse can this possibly get? I would read the next chapter and find out: Yes, it can get worse. I found it disturbing because I came to the realization that despite my belief that an author would grow to love the world they were creating and therefore have difficulty destroying it, JK was showing that she was strong enough to do it. In the back of my mind, I kept thinking she is showing that she could kill Harry. I read on and tried to find the relief in the bit of levity at the end, but mainly, I remained depressed with OotP

Re: another angle on DD speech

[woman_ironing]

I'm just off to read DD's speech again with your comment in mind!

I remember reading an interview with JKR in which she stated (ominously) that she could do anything she wanted to Harry because, she said, "He's mine."

Re: another angle on DD speech

[rhiandra]

He-he, that's true. He is hers! Thank you for telling me about that comment! It made me smile because it seems so...possessive. :)

[annearchy]

Interesting. It really does make sense this way. JKR as the author is the Deus ex machina of the overall story, while Dumbledore, one of her creations, has set a plan in motion to try to prevent the destruction of the very world JKR has created. Wow. You're right, it sounds like she COULD kill Harry. Which would send me (and one or 2 other folks, I bet) into paroxysms of tears that would last for days. She can't kill Harry; the resulting flood would raise sea level 20 feet world wide and everyone would drown!!! ;)

[ook]

I listened to this chapter on audiobook earlier today. I really enjoyed the part where Harry was trashing DD's office. :)

And I think that DD is an utter twat.