Chapter 13 - The Secret Riddle

[cheeringcharm]

Sorry this is late and our chapters are out of order guys. Apparently, we can't post date in a community. It won't happen again.

Chapter 13 - The Secret Riddle

"I remember she said to me, 'I hope he looks like his papa,' and I won't lie, she was right to hope it, because she was no beauty - and then she told me he was to be named Tom, for his

Comments

[darkeyedwolf]

There are no words for how much this chapter pissed me off. No words. I might -- might -- have been able to forgive Dumbledore for turning his back on a clearly messed-up little boy; I might've been able to excuse his unnecessarily firm hand in his dealings with Tom; I might've even accepted excuses for why he lets an eleven-year-old explore an entirely new world all on his own, with no kind of guidance or supervision whatsoever. I might've bought it. Everyone makes mistakes, right? This one was colossal -- his neglect was the first step in creating a new dark lord -- but it was still an error in judgment. Even if he didn't learn his lesson a lifetime later when it came to Harry, well, he's just flawed, and not as all-wise as he claims to be.

But there is no excuse for the exchange after Dumbledore and Harry come out of the memory. CHILDREN ARE NOT BORN EVIL. No matter how much Tom had "instincts for cruelty and domination," he was only eleven. No one's destiny is set at that age! He could've changed! And Dumbledore, sitting there,

[cheeringcharm]

I have to agree that my opinion of Dumbledore as a benevolent good-hearted mentor has changed since reading along with ACAD, thanks in no small part to cadesama. But, I think that with Riddle and even Harry to an extent, JKR is entrenching herself firmly in the Nature ideological camp in the nature versus nurutre debate. She's telling us here that Riddle was born the way he is, just as surely as she has illustrated that Harry was born good despite the years he spent being emotionally abused by the Dursley's.

Whether or not I concur with her opinion, I agree with you that Dumbledore's actions, or inaction as it were, was wrong. Riddle was never given the opportunity or direction to be 'good.' So, in the end, Dumbledore can be partially blamed for how Riddle turned out. It would have been better for Dumbledore to try and fail than to not try at all.

[chasezgranger]

I had always thought that the opportunity was given when Riddle attended Hogwarts. There he'd have a chance to either continue being evil or become good, but JKR doesn't show us this so alas, there's no point in my reasoning. :(

[darkeyedwolf]

I agree with everything you said. Dumbledore totally screwd up when he just looked from the side, saw Tom Riddgle grow up into Voldemort and did nothiing to change it. I also hated it that he doesn't seem to think for a second that maybe he is not so perfect and smart as he claims and that if he bothered to try and really help Tom, thing might have turned up different

[cheeringcharm]

As much as I think the pensieve scenes are drawn out plot devices, I do enjoy the scenes themselves and the information we get out of them

[chasezgranger]

I read this book so fast that everything is a blur. When I re-read this scene, I asked myself how the heck did DD know that these trinkets belonged to his kids he's victimized?

I don't think Harry has changed much either except he's more socialable and confident. It could be because everyone believes him now, but I just find it odd. I've always felt that Harry would just stick with the people he's always stuck with and that's that. I think JKR made him a bit of an extrovert for the sake of having something in common with Ginny.

[cadesama]

I see Harry's maturity being in how he lends his shoulder to Hermione during the Ron/Lavender crisis, while in OotP he noticed little of what was going on with his friends, and his newfound willingness to present his theories to adults to recruit them to help. Those are the only noticeable changes, and they both pretty much come to nothing. Hermione doesn't want to be comforted, and seems to spend all of her time rushing out of scenes. The adults, of course, are perfectly useless as usual.

And, as we will see later on when DD gives him a task, he's still self-absorbed and ignores it because he thinks he knows better.

Weeeell, he does know better. There was nothing of immediate importance in the memory. All they learn is that Voldemort loves the number seven. Important to the horcrux quest ultimately, but not so important that a few weeks delay would mess them up. In that time frame, I really think discovering what Draco was up to would have been a better use of time.

[annearchy]

This was one of the chapters that had me shaking my head about WTF JKR was doing in this book. I agree with cheeringcharm that the Pensieve scenes are drawn out plot devices, and considering that such scenes seem to account for such a huge portion of the main plot in HBP, they became kind of annoying by this point. I was thinking, "Oh great, another trip down Memory Lane." They really are just a Magicky way of introducing backstory while sticking to Harry's POV

[muggle_prof]

This chapter really puts the lie to the whole "It is our choices, Harry, rather than our abilities, that show what we truly are" dictum

yup, bad guys are born, not made. It's such a complete reversal, I don't understand what she was thinking. (just had to agree, even if adding nothing worthwhile to the conversation.)

[cadesama]

Whether this is supposed to be commentary on the Wizarding World's blind eye to psychological difficulties, or commentary on Dumbledore's personality, I don't know.

I like taking it as sign that the reason love is the power Harry possesses which Voldemort "knows not" is that no one in the Wizaring World is capable of empathy or compassion. That's why Voldemort is unfamiliar with it. Everyone in the Wizarding World is a horrible person except Harry. There are some flaws in that theory, but it makes more sense than what canon is presenting us with.

Whether this is supposed to be commentary on the Wizarding World's blind eye to psychological difficulties, or commentary on Dumbledore's personality, I don't know.

I'm starting to think we've been reading that phrase wrong for years. Admittedly, JKR goes into a big spiel about free will in HBP (which, lalala, I ignore because it makes no sense), but that sentence says that choice shows what we are. We don't choose. We just reveal our true natures with our choices.

[annearchy]

but that sentence says that choice shows what we are. We don't choose. We just reveal our true natures with our choices.

Ummm...so we don't choose, we can't choose, but our choices show our true natures? How can we make choices if we can't choose? Sounds like the old fate card to me. I'm not trying to be thick-headed; it just sounds like it's all a matter of fate. So the Wizarding World is full of Calvinistic determinism rather than free will. Again, it's nonsensical to me.

[cadesama]

I want to know which simple spells identified Slytherins' locket, and how. Magical carbon dating? Magical imprint from the maker? That type of spell would be useful to Harry in searching out the other Horcruxes had anyone deigned to teach it to him

[muggle_prof]

Ah, flagrant disregard for the rights of Muggles. Mrs. Cole is smart, so she has to be punished with a mind trick. More convenient for Dumbledore

Exactly. And she is in a job that basically makes her Tom's legal guardian, whether DD likes it or not. It makes you wonder how they approach the parents of muggleborns. Do they pull the same little trick on them? After all, Dean makes quite a point in OOTP that his parents don't know what goes on at Hogwarts. And Hermione says something to the effect that being a prefect is something her parents can understand , which again makes you wonder what they haven't been told because "they can't understand."

why couldn't they take a peek earlier on to figure out which kids live in muggle homes? They could talk to the families and help the kids out, cuts down on stress and accidental magic in front of muggles. Oh wait, that'd make sense.

Considering Tom's first thought is that Dumbledore has come to take him to the insane asylum, it'd sure help to have some early intervention so that kids and

[cadesama]

It makes you wonder how they approach the parents of muggleborns. Do they pull the same little trick on them?

Hmm, I don't think they mind trick the muggle parents, but I'm sure that their opinions aren't worth much. I mean, what's the excuse for how they treat the Dursleys? They're abusive and nasty, okay, but they are Harry's legal guardians, and if they say he's not going to Hogwarts, that's legally binding. And we can't say that they totally disregard the Dursleys' authority -- Harry can't go to Hogsmeade because neither will sign his permission slip. Harry may be a special circumstance as savior of their world, but who's to say that muggle parents even have a say in whether their magical child gets trained? If they disagree, they can be made to agree. I'd bet that the children are taken aside and sworn to a certain amount of secrecy ("oh, you could tell them, but they just won't understand") for the sake of the WW's "security", as well.

it'd sure help to have some early intervention so that kids and their families have

[cadesama]

Okay, I sympathize with Merope and all, but why shouldn't Harry judge her harshly for lacking courage? I mean, if you aren't going to judge a person for their qualities and the actions they take because of them, or fail to take, then there's no judging anyone. Which is very kind, but doesn't lead to social order or justice.

Dumbledore is inconsistent in people he judges/blames and the people he said that shouldn't be judged (to the point that he he doesn't even think they should take reponsibilty for their actions). Merope, Kreacher, not to mention Snape and Dumbledore himself are not to blame, no matter what they did. While Tom Riddle - he was completely responsible since he was eleven, Sirius is to blame for the way he acted towards Kreacher (though Dumbledore was no better, forcing them both to this position).

Ah, flagrant disregard for the rights of Muggles. Mrs. Cole is smart, so she has to be punished with a mind trick. More convenient for Dumbledore. And, really, if there's a quill that records each magical birth to use for

[jabbamacmilly]

These lessons are all great and all but Oh how I wished that along with these background stories Dumbledore took the time to actually "teach" something to Harry.

Why oh why couldn't they have a few more lessons so that Harry could learn some actual defence?

[house_elf_44]

I agree. If Dumbledore knew Draco's mission was to kill him, he should have taken steps just in case Draco pulled it off. I wished he had taught Harry how to do things like find that unseen door in the cave, how to avoid curses like the one that killed his hand, and how to destroy a horcrux. I'm hoping that Harry will be able to get answers from Dumbledore's portrait if that wasn't a fake death.