I was too numb to be nauseous. Admittedly, that was because I was completely incapable of engaging with Dumbledore's "suffering" on a sympathetic level. I felt a bit for Harry, but really, I was just too distant to care much about anything Dumbledore said or did at that point.
This is precisely how I felt. Most of the critical elements necessary for this to be a truly moving scene were missing. I felt nothing at all, except that there were too many holes and contrivances in the scene leading up to it for it to be anything but an ill-conceived sap-fest (and this from someone who spent much of OoP very, very involved emotionally
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OMG, so much word. Except, I would say that the moral relativism has always been a part of the story. It was brought to the forefront by Dumbledore's sudden prominence in HBP, as he is the epitome of hypocrisy and moral relativism. His morals were meant to be the moral foundation of the book, but they were by this point so questionable and so ill-conceived that nothing any other character did could take place on solid footing. JKR's grandly toppled Dumbledore from his pedestal in OotP, and then proceeded to do absolutely nothing with the resulting vacuum. Harry didn't step up and become the moral center, the lack of morality was not acknowledged or addressed. Instead, we have Dumbledore playacting the part after being revealed as unfit for the job.
I would say that the moral relativism has always been a part of the story. It was brought to the forefront by Dumbledore's sudden prominence in HBP, as he is the epitome of hypocrisy and moral relativism. His morals were meant to be the moral foundation of the book, but they were by this point so questionable and so ill-conceived that nothing any other character did could take place on solid footing.
There you go! I think this assessment is spot on and yet more solid evidence that although the plot may have been carefully planned on JRK’s part, character development and interaction was woefully neglected and a story that should be growing more compelling as it nears its climax, appears to be falling flat and losing focus and direction. JKR is doggedly following this iron girdle of a plot framework that will more than likely even morally negate the “love weapon” concept in the end.
JKR's grandly toppled Dumbledore from his pedestal in OotP, and then proceeded to do absolutely nothing with the resulting vacuum. Harry didn't step up
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character development and interaction was woefully neglected and a story that should be growing more compelling as it nears its climax, appears to be falling flat and losing focus and direction. JKR is doggedly following this iron girdle of a plot framework that will more than likely even morally negate the “love weapon” concept in the end.
I definitely agree. JKR set herself a hard task when she decided the whole plot in advance, without input from the characters. I think that the entire growth of the story is a problem. First she created Harry, and then the universe, and then the other characters populating it. The plot is therefore something happening to Harry, and just about everyone else is incidental to it.
And this brings us to the troubling question of how will Harry make the correct decisions in the final book without a) Hermione suddenly regaining her sanity, b) Harry himself receiving another literary makeover in which he channels all the wisdom of Dumbledore, 3) Ridiculously contrived bits of magic like Felix Felicis
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Depends on your definition of contrived bits of magic. I think that we shouldn't ignore portrait!Dumbledore. Why have Harry or Hermione step up and either discover morality, or deal with the pitfalls of moral relativism head on, when you still have a magical device for inserting Dumbledore's "wisdom" into the mix?
Good point.
When I'm feeling optimistic, I think that events will conspire to force Harry's hand, probably without moral revelations but possibly with. He will have to make nice with Zacharias and his cannon fodder characters, he will have to pull back from over-use of violence and Dark Magic, he will have to make alliances with people he hates to win, and he will have to relinquish his political power at the end of the day -- on his own. Not because Dumbledore says so, but because Harry realizes at each step that this is what must be done if he is to not only be a winning leader, but a good leader.
But then I realize that my estimations of what good leadership is are vastly different from JKR's,Yes, and then there is
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Is leadership a theme of the books, really? I mean, I know Harry does lead on occasion but it's not essentially what he is. I don't get the impression that the story is leading(!) towards Harry becoming a great leader. His fight with Voldemort is a personal struggle even though it has enormous implications for the rest of the world. He's more of a loner than a leader. I hope to God he doesn't become a leader - think for yourselves people! And if he makes an alliance with Scrimgeour I shall weep. I've never understood the Zacharias thing but it seems to have become a joke now. He didn't turn out for the DA next chapter.
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This is precisely how I felt. Most of the critical elements necessary for this to be a truly moving scene were missing. I felt nothing at all, except that there were too many holes and contrivances in the scene leading up to it for it to be anything but an ill-conceived sap-fest (and this from someone who spent much of OoP very, very involved emotionally ( ... )
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There you go! I think this assessment is spot on and yet more solid evidence that although the plot may have been carefully planned on JRK’s part, character development and interaction was woefully neglected and a story that should be growing more compelling as it nears its climax, appears to be falling flat and losing focus and direction. JKR is doggedly following this iron girdle of a plot framework that will more than likely even morally negate the “love weapon” concept in the end.
JKR's grandly toppled Dumbledore from his pedestal in OotP, and then proceeded to do absolutely nothing with the resulting vacuum. Harry didn't step up ( ... )
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I definitely agree. JKR set herself a hard task when she decided the whole plot in advance, without input from the characters. I think that the entire growth of the story is a problem. First she created Harry, and then the universe, and then the other characters populating it. The plot is therefore something happening to Harry, and just about everyone else is incidental to it.
And this brings us to the troubling question of how will Harry make the correct decisions in the final book without a) Hermione suddenly regaining her sanity, b) Harry himself receiving another literary makeover in which he channels all the wisdom of Dumbledore, 3) Ridiculously contrived bits of magic like Felix Felicis ( ... )
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Good point.
When I'm feeling optimistic, I think that events will conspire to force Harry's hand, probably without moral revelations but possibly with. He will have to make nice with Zacharias and his cannon fodder characters, he will have to pull back from over-use of violence and Dark Magic, he will have to make alliances with people he hates to win, and he will have to relinquish his political power at the end of the day -- on his own. Not because Dumbledore says so, but because Harry realizes at each step that this is what must be done if he is to not only be a winning leader, but a good leader.
But then I realize that my estimations of what good leadership is are vastly different from JKR's,Yes, and then there is ( ... )
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