FLDS
20 year olds to be having relationships with <17 year olds. Point blank. They are in different life places, and as such, the >20 year old needs to grow up and live their life as an adult, and allow the <17 to live theirs as a child. This is one of those that I really have no desire to debate, at all. So yeah, if you want to comment, be aware of how *strongly* I feel about this. Pei's commentary on the FLDS situation, back here.'>
I'm following this case pretty closely, for a number of reasons. I've been watching the FLDS for a couple of years out of a "How the hell is this being allowed" curiosity. They kick their 15-20 year old boys out because they're a threat to the older men taking the younger women as wives. They marry girls to cousins and uncles and strangers as soon as they're old enough to carry a child to term. These are things that have been known about this "church" for 5-6 years now? Longer? Everyone who leaves *all* say the same damned thing.
All of them.
Consistently.
The fucking PROPHET of this belief system has been arrested and sent to jail for forcing a *14 year old girl* to marry her cousin (but he's only 19, that's not so bad *rolls eyes*) and consumate the marriage, and they try to say that it doesn't happen?!?!?!!
Do I believe that there was a sixteen year old who made the calls? Unfortunately, the evidence so far certainly points to a no, which makes the basis upon which these raids were made problematic, but...
If I see one more fucking person railing against this being religious persecution, and asking why ALL the children were taken rather than just the girls who are immediately at risk, I'm going to fucking scream.
There is consistent, rampant abuse of young women in these communities. The boys are trained to believe that they have the right to treat women this way, or they are kicked out when they're barely capable of taking care of themselves, with no education and no training, simply because they might want a wife or two of their own some day. Do you want to tell me that if you took just the 13-17 year old girls away that the 9-12 year olds would be safe? That in a matter of years they would not be the next generation of 18 year olds with 2-3 kids already? Do some of the women consent to the prophet's desires with no fight, well, yeah, I am sure that they do. and you know what, that doesn't change the fact that it is *abuse*.
Simple fucking abuse.
You want to marry 10 people, knock yourself the fuck out. You want to live in a culture that harkens back to some idealized concept of "easier days", knock yourself the fuck out.
But let your children be god damned children. Let them learn, even if it's just a trade, hell, raise your daughters to believe that a woman's place is at home being a wife and mother. I'll debate it and fight with you over the belief, but it's not ABUSE.
I am reaching a point where I can't read the comments to the articles anymore, they're just making me too mad. This isn't about religion, this isn't about how they choose to structure their communities, it's about the fact that as soon as a girl can breed, she is expected to marry men, whether they're 6 years her senior or 60 I really don't care, and do nothing but breed children, never questioning anything or anyone. It's about the fact that those same women are expected to tolerate abuse as part of being a wife and mother.
Fuck. That. Noise.
Take the kids, take every single fucking one of them. Give them to mormons, give them to baptists, catholics, agnostics, I don't fucking care. Hell, find some good conservative polygamist mormons to give them to. I don't fucking care. But get them, ALL of them, out of that community. Let the boys grow up to be men who respect the work of their wives, who are partners, and hell, even be the man of the house... But not an abusive dick. Raise the girls to believe that they can do whatever they want, even if it is something as "simple" as being a stay at home mom. Raise the women to braid flowers into their hair while they are children, have their first blushing conversation with a boy their own age, sit in a room "courting" with their older cousins and sisters as chaperones, be KIDS.
I'm following this case pretty closely, for a number of reasons. I've been watching the FLDS for a couple of years out of a "How the hell is this being allowed" curiosity. They kick their 15-20 year old boys out because they're a threat to the older men taking the younger women as wives. They marry girls to cousins and uncles and strangers as soon as they're old enough to carry a child to term. These are things that have been known about this "church" for 5-6 years now? Longer? Everyone who leaves *all* say the same damned thing.
All of them.
Consistently.
The fucking PROPHET of this belief system has been arrested and sent to jail for forcing a *14 year old girl* to marry her cousin (but he's only 19, that's not so bad *rolls eyes*) and consumate the marriage, and they try to say that it doesn't happen?!?!?!!
Do I believe that there was a sixteen year old who made the calls? Unfortunately, the evidence so far certainly points to a no, which makes the basis upon which these raids were made problematic, but...
If I see one more fucking person railing against this being religious persecution, and asking why ALL the children were taken rather than just the girls who are immediately at risk, I'm going to fucking scream.
There is consistent, rampant abuse of young women in these communities. The boys are trained to believe that they have the right to treat women this way, or they are kicked out when they're barely capable of taking care of themselves, with no education and no training, simply because they might want a wife or two of their own some day. Do you want to tell me that if you took just the 13-17 year old girls away that the 9-12 year olds would be safe? That in a matter of years they would not be the next generation of 18 year olds with 2-3 kids already? Do some of the women consent to the prophet's desires with no fight, well, yeah, I am sure that they do. and you know what, that doesn't change the fact that it is *abuse*.
Simple fucking abuse.
You want to marry 10 people, knock yourself the fuck out. You want to live in a culture that harkens back to some idealized concept of "easier days", knock yourself the fuck out.
But let your children be god damned children. Let them learn, even if it's just a trade, hell, raise your daughters to believe that a woman's place is at home being a wife and mother. I'll debate it and fight with you over the belief, but it's not ABUSE.
I am reaching a point where I can't read the comments to the articles anymore, they're just making me too mad. This isn't about religion, this isn't about how they choose to structure their communities, it's about the fact that as soon as a girl can breed, she is expected to marry men, whether they're 6 years her senior or 60 I really don't care, and do nothing but breed children, never questioning anything or anyone. It's about the fact that those same women are expected to tolerate abuse as part of being a wife and mother.
Fuck. That. Noise.
Take the kids, take every single fucking one of them. Give them to mormons, give them to baptists, catholics, agnostics, I don't fucking care. Hell, find some good conservative polygamist mormons to give them to. I don't fucking care. But get them, ALL of them, out of that community. Let the boys grow up to be men who respect the work of their wives, who are partners, and hell, even be the man of the house... But not an abusive dick. Raise the girls to believe that they can do whatever they want, even if it is something as "simple" as being a stay at home mom. Raise the women to braid flowers into their hair while they are children, have their first blushing conversation with a boy their own age, sit in a room "courting" with their older cousins and sisters as chaperones, be KIDS.