On Being Taught The Obvious

[kiwimouse]

Hi.  I haven't posted here before.  I'm an INFP who's highest Jung type feature comes out as N (and consequently lowest feature is S).  This isn't only true in personality tests, this comes out consistently in day to day life.

On the advice of ramsey_sitc I post.

This was a topic I posted to the _infp_ community:I feel like no one ever bothers to tell me about

Comments

[mintkitty]

apologies ahead of time for excessive lengthiness.

i'm an ENTP. i score incredibly high on the N scale for almost every single MB test that i've taken. it's usually around 90%-ish. this shows much in my daily interactions. at school, i've always had trouble seeing how some people couldn't understand certain concepts that seem so blatantly obvious to me. on the other hand, other people often label me as "ditzy" because i seem to them so "out of it" in normal conventions

[gwyd]

Don't take this as a dis, because it's not. (I have SID, myself). I was wondering if you've been tested for Auspergers or High Functioning Autism. Difficulty in making eye contact, dislike of touching, and an inability to read body language and "unwritten rules" are all common in Aspergers, along with high IQ and a fondness for abstract thinking.

[mintkitty]

1. what is SID?
2. a. no. i've never been tested for it [and no offense taken] though recently i read a book which featured an autistic protagonist/narrator. it was written by a specialist who works with autistic children, so i'm assuming it's pretty accurate. have you heard of the curious incident of the dog in the nighttime by mark haddon? the kid in this book has trouble making eye contact and discreet touches, is unable to read facial expressions and body language, possess a high iq and unbelievable mathematic abilities, but he seemed to also dislike abstract thought, preferring the concrete. i'm guessing there are different types of autism?
b. do you think i should get tested for it? if so, how would i go about doing this?
3. are things like eye contact, touching as a form of communication, and ability to read body language supposed to be natural to most people or do people usually consiously learn these things? i tried reading online guides on these, but i'm still a bit out of it...

I Know, I'm Rambling

[gwyd]

1. SID is the sensory wiring commonly found in Autism. I lack the rest of it. In other words, I'm neurotypical when it comes to thought patterns and interaction, but I percieve the world differently than the average person. I'm extremely sensative to smell and touch. I have little in the way of noise filters, and my entire sensory spectrum tunes up to extremely high intensity occationally, throwing me into sensory overload which occationally causes me to withdraw even tough I'm generally social. It's kind of like the volume on the world gets turned up too high. Most of the time it's an advantage, though

[urbeatle]

I think it's kind of amusing that the Ses will go to great lengths explaining some garbage you already figured out based on their first ten or so words, but (as you say) don't explain the "unwritten rules" at all. it really comes down to two groups of people disagreeing on what things need lengthy explanantions and what things do not.

since I'm high on I as well as N and P, I don't interact all that much, especially with Ses, but I know some of the tricks. if you have to explain something, make sure you explain it in terms of physical stuff they would do and the sensory feedback they receive. I should have done that when I was trying to teach my uncle how to use a computer... when listening to them, you might as well use all that extra time they are giving you with empty words to compose a summary of what they said so you can say "oh, so I should do A, B, and C?" -- but make sure you use some of their own words in that summary, so they think they did a great job of explaining it for you to "get" it all so easily. might be a good idea

[gwyd]

I second the use of concrete stuff in explanations. I teach kids for a living, and a lot of them are not developmentally ready for abstracts. One of my most common tasks is trying to make abstracts accessable to people who are just learning to think that way. I also find the multiple intelligences approach really helps. If you can show pictures, etc. it makes the process much easier for some people.

I generally parrot back the main points of the S-planations, to "make sure I know and you know that I understand." Yeah, it's boring, but it's important to make sure they think you've been listening. It makes them feel valuable and listened to.

[kiwimouse]

Good advice... Argh! Can't they enter our world for once? I'm sorry, I know, complaining doesn't help. Thanks, this should be helpful... if the SJ people around me will have the patience to allow me to think of how to put my words in S ways.

[gwyd]

It's frustrating, I agree.

I'm not sure they can meet us halfway, though. If they could think like us, they'd be us. They are the default, we are the exception.

[gwyd]

The unwritten rules thing is more of an F issue, I think. I'm pretty extreme toward the N on evaluations, but my T is much closer to the F border. I generally do pretty well at the unwritten rules. You just have to read the body language as well as the words. Something like 5% of meaning in conversation is words. Another 10% or so is tone. The rest is all body language. Everybody makes mistakes, particularly when they are in a hurry or emotions are high, but most people learn to read the other messages. Sometimes the body language says, "This is a private conversation," when there are no verbal indicators

[kiwimouse]

I am INFP. So like I said I cope relatively well with the unwrittens. Sometimes I do know someone else around me is unaware, they haven't been fairly warned and it's like... well, yeah, I've been there.

Sometimes I know something's wrong, because I am reading signals but those signals only come AFTER the most sacred rule has been violated (because people don't project all possible rules of the circumstance through body language, voice, etc). When they are projected, I'm pretty darn fine. When they aren't projected (a completely hidden rule attached to no signals until violated, i.e. for those rules that are, you know, SO OBVIOUS -whatever!) then I blunder in. Then being an empathic F, I get the delightful privilege of seeing their reaction in very strong disapproving vibes while my heart sinks

this intrigues me

[mudblossom]

Funny you should write this and I should read this today. Last night I spent an exhausting amount of time with my high school sweetheart/ first X. He is an ESTJ, emphasis on the S. I’m an INFJ. I’m not sure how I dated him for so long and exactly why I loved him as strongly as I did. But last night I was trying to figure out why for the past 5 years I have continued to meet up with him for our yearly reunions. I suppose he is just the living memory. (But I digress) sorry

We always get into some sort of heated debate/ argument (memories) and I always feel that I’ve explained my points perfectly until he flips out and gives me a “what the hell are you talking about” response. The boy just graduated from Stanford and so you would assume (and you would be right) that he is incredibly cocky. Any point that I make is ether not listened to or is not understood which of course means that he is automatically correct. <--Sarcasm

Re: this intrigues me

[kiwimouse]

And do I feel yours

Re: this intrigues me

[gwyd]

I extend my sympathy. I lucked out and grew up in an NT household. (My little sister was the odd one out). I would have gone crazy in a house where they didn't treat me like a seperate intelligent entity and all the rules made sense.