We're free to think what we want, but not always to say it (the Constitution LIES!). We're free to want what we want, but not always to have it. We're free to have the ideas that we want, but not always to act on them.
Alright... I understand that, but *why* do we have the ability to think what we want? That's what bothers me. How are we separate from our brains? How does ANYTHING BUT biology and circumstance determine our every decision and going as deep into every thought? Very confused...
free will is a very ill-defined concept. in at least one way, one may claim truthfully that no one has free will because the consequences of the actions of others, as well as our own will affect our lives and restrict the possible array of choices we can make.
ultimately, we can do whatever we are mentally willing to and are physically capable of, so in that sense, free will is a reality, but one that has consequences like everything else
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I definitely am intrigued... I just don't want to feel as if I'm a victim to my own life, which I realize is a bit pessimistic, but very basically, if I'm not happy and have never been happy, I have no control to change that and I'm just waiting for it to bang and change. Discouraging.
this can get very convoluted and messy, but of course you have at least some recognisable manner of choice over what/how you think/feel. as i mentioned before, this can be interpreted different ways imho, and may well lead to the fact that we truly *dont* have free will, in some respect or other. the thing is, it probably isn't as important as you make it. what i think is important is realising what your purpose is and then fulfilling it, so to speak, and perhaps one may not have the free will to do that, but if fate, then, has us destined to find our meaning, then it will happen. while we're waiting (again imho), i just don't think it's so necessary to endlessly mull over the yes-it-can-be-depressing fact that we probably don't have free will at all in the way we'd often like to believe we do.
Yeah, it is pretty pointless, and I understand that... it would just be nice to have some sort of "evidence" pointing one way or another to the specifics I'm looking for.
Sentience Requires Free WillaisingioroNovember 8 2004, 12:29:17 UTC
The very idea of Free Will is to me a spiritual concept connoting choice. Choice in turn touches on issues of right or wrong (which is the right choice?) and brings us over to ethics, morality and the field of moral philosophy. Spirituality comes into play because choices may be laid-out on the spectrum between good and evil depending on a person’s spiritual predisposition
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Re: Sentience Requires Free WillwrathberryswirlNovember 8 2004, 20:25:51 UTC
Instinct has me in complete agreeance with you, and thanks for being so specific and articulate. I guess the base of me doesn't like the idea that there are unanswered questions that are so important to me. I'll grow up eventually.
free will from a scientific standpointmr_uncreativeNovember 10 2004, 00:40:46 UTC
as kitt3h mentioned before. free will is an ill-defined concept. an abstract idea that has been created by the human mind. you really can't get a truly scientific standpoint because science doesn't apply to something that was invented inside the mind.
from an entirely scientific standpoint, i could support the notion that there is no free will, that everything in time and space is destined. but this would involve quantum field theory and infinite dimensions and such. this explanation wouldn't tell you WHY there is no free will, just that all possible actions occur in a sort of predistined manner.
basically...just like religion, God, and spirituality, the notion of Free Will is all in your head.
Re: free will from a scientific standpointwrathberryswirlNovember 10 2004, 13:09:12 UTC
Even though it can't be proven (yet), I don't think religion/god/spirituality/free will are all necessarily things that, since man has perhaps "created" them, don't exist... I still believe there's a truth there. Maybe you're saying everything is false because it's something we've thought up? But I don't really go for that either..
Re: free will from a scientific standpointmr_uncreativeNovember 12 2004, 00:23:36 UTC
basically, the only thing that matters is what you percieve them to be. do you really think reality would be much different if there was no god or religion or free will? would it be different if there was? if so, then what's different is what you percieve to be different.
what i'm saying is that the existence of religion, god, spirituality, and free will are inconsequential. life will still go on whether or not they're part of it.
oh, since the nature of those things are metaphysical, they really can't be proven in the physical realm. you can try to find proof, but there'll always be some way to disprove it. trust me on that, or you can try to prove me wrong by showing something metaphysical can be proven physically.
I'd love to believe that because, yeah, the idea of knowing you're destiny's predetermined makes living useless and pointless. But it seems like everything's situational - you come into life experience-less, and as you gain experiences you gain outlook... to say that there's a separaton between your "self" and your body, you'd have to admit there's some sort of soul or completely un-physical reality, which brings up so many other questions about god and the like... as much as I hate it, the argument for free will seems to be full of holes.
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Freedom is all in the mind. Literally.
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ultimately, we can do whatever we are mentally willing to and are physically capable of, so in that sense, free will is a reality, but one that has consequences like everything else ( ... )
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from an entirely scientific standpoint, i could support the notion that there is no free will, that everything in time and space is destined. but this would involve quantum field theory and infinite dimensions and such. this explanation wouldn't tell you WHY there is no free will, just that all possible actions occur in a sort of predistined manner.
basically...just like religion, God, and spirituality, the notion of Free Will is all in your head.
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what i'm saying is that the existence of religion, god, spirituality, and free will are inconsequential. life will still go on whether or not they're part of it.
oh, since the nature of those things are metaphysical, they really can't be proven in the physical realm. you can try to find proof, but there'll always be some way to disprove it. trust me on that, or you can try to prove me wrong by showing something metaphysical can be proven physically.
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