I couldn't disagree more
I’ve read Dear Abby for a long time. I’m curious. I like to know what other people ask advice about…and sometimes, I mull the questions I might ask, if I ever wrote. But I never do. But the what appeared in the column a day or so ago almost has me prompting to do so, not to ask a question, but to share my opinion on an answer.
The following is the section of the column in full, question and answer:
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DEAR ABBY: I am a divorced father of three who has worked hard at staying part of my children's lives, contributing financial and emotional support through college. I have since remarried and have a good relationship with all three, who are now on their own, working and leading normal, healthy and productive lives.
My 24-year-old daughter, "Amanda," has recently become engaged. Despite my giving her a "heads up" about wanting a courtesy call from her fiance, "Larry," at some point, I got nothing. Apparently, she told him it wasn't necessary. So much for who will wear the pants in their family.
Without being a jerk, I mentioned something to Larry -- half in jest -- when they called to give me their good news. Knowing that I may have been slightly offended, I can't believe he didn't call me a few days later with an explanation or an apology. When I later mentioned to Amanda that I was disappointed, she and her sister insisted that the custom is outdated.
Larry is 30; he's no kid. I haven't found one dad yet who didn't get "the call" from a daughter's intended. Do I need to let go of this, or am I justified in speaking further to Larry about it? The wedding is getting closer, and I am ... DISMAYED IN ROSWELL, GA.
DEAR DISMAYED: For everyone's sake, it would be better if you cooled off and stopped the advice gathering. While I agree that the formality of asking for a woman's hand (or whatever) may be outdated, particularly if a daughter is self-supporting and out on her own, it is still a gesture of respect. It would have been nice if she had held your feelings in higher regard, but perhaps she didn't feel her fiance would pass muster.
I don't know how many dads to whom you have confided this story, but for all concerned, it might be less embarrassing if you stopped and accepted the fact that, as much as you might like to protect your daughter, the gesture was unwelcome.
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I’m not even sure where to begin in expressing how keenly this entire thing bothered me, how it struck me with how incredibly opposed to it I feel. I’ve disagreed with answers to other questions of course, but none so strongly as this. I’m not sure who I’m more dismayed with; the father for having his absurd, antiquated assumptions/expectations, or 'Abby', for calling it a respectful gesture.
I don’t consider myself a hardcore feminist…not the kind who seem to hate men and see sexism in absolutely everything. I think that equality among the sexes is a given and I‘m not blind to the fact that in many cases woman still struggle greatly, of course, but I don’t balk at doors being held open for me or guys standing when I come to the table (admittedly, I can only think of two acquaintance-type friends who ever did this), etc.
But what the hell??
I absolutely and whole-heartedly cannot abide this at all. I cannot believe that any father would expect it, nor do I see how in any context it can be taken to be respectful. Of whom, exactly? The father? How? To me, it smacks far too much of a time when women were chattel (as they still are in parts of the world today), when their voice was not their own, when they were not allowed to be makers of their own destiny. That it’s largely a formality in our culture is beside the point and I find it neither charming, nor romantic.
I’m actually quite livid, the more I think about it. It’s something I still see in movies and on tv and I do my best not to squirm when it happens, even with characters I love. It’s one thing for a future-son-in-law to go to his fiances parents and…I don’t know, thank them for giving birth to her, to promise them he’ll make her happy, etc. It still seems kind of antiquated and cheesy, but the kind of cheese that tends to work on me. But to ask for permission? My entire life I have been surrounded by strong woman, woman who speak their mind, who make their own decisions. The idea that they-or I-would then have this life changing choice symbolically taken from them under the guise of “formality” is absurd and insulting.
I realize I’m making more out of this than is probably necessary, but I can’t help how strongly I feel about it. I cannot see it as respectful, even though there is no actual permission being asked. In fact, were my would-be fiancé to try such a thing…I’m not entirely sure we’d be as ready to marry as he’d be assuming. To think it was necessary, that I would desire it, or that my own father would be anything but baffled by it…it would illustrate how ill he knew me or my family. I honestly find the gesture exactly the opposite of what’s intended and would be nothing but disappointed if I knew my boyfriend had tried it. Gah!
(Of course, there is also the little gem, “So much for who will wear the pants in their family.”. As if this isn’t the 21st century!
The following is the section of the column in full, question and answer:
================================================
DEAR ABBY: I am a divorced father of three who has worked hard at staying part of my children's lives, contributing financial and emotional support through college. I have since remarried and have a good relationship with all three, who are now on their own, working and leading normal, healthy and productive lives.
My 24-year-old daughter, "Amanda," has recently become engaged. Despite my giving her a "heads up" about wanting a courtesy call from her fiance, "Larry," at some point, I got nothing. Apparently, she told him it wasn't necessary. So much for who will wear the pants in their family.
Without being a jerk, I mentioned something to Larry -- half in jest -- when they called to give me their good news. Knowing that I may have been slightly offended, I can't believe he didn't call me a few days later with an explanation or an apology. When I later mentioned to Amanda that I was disappointed, she and her sister insisted that the custom is outdated.
Larry is 30; he's no kid. I haven't found one dad yet who didn't get "the call" from a daughter's intended. Do I need to let go of this, or am I justified in speaking further to Larry about it? The wedding is getting closer, and I am ... DISMAYED IN ROSWELL, GA.
DEAR DISMAYED: For everyone's sake, it would be better if you cooled off and stopped the advice gathering. While I agree that the formality of asking for a woman's hand (or whatever) may be outdated, particularly if a daughter is self-supporting and out on her own, it is still a gesture of respect. It would have been nice if she had held your feelings in higher regard, but perhaps she didn't feel her fiance would pass muster.
I don't know how many dads to whom you have confided this story, but for all concerned, it might be less embarrassing if you stopped and accepted the fact that, as much as you might like to protect your daughter, the gesture was unwelcome.
=====================================================
I’m not even sure where to begin in expressing how keenly this entire thing bothered me, how it struck me with how incredibly opposed to it I feel. I’ve disagreed with answers to other questions of course, but none so strongly as this. I’m not sure who I’m more dismayed with; the father for having his absurd, antiquated assumptions/expectations, or 'Abby', for calling it a respectful gesture.
I don’t consider myself a hardcore feminist…not the kind who seem to hate men and see sexism in absolutely everything. I think that equality among the sexes is a given and I‘m not blind to the fact that in many cases woman still struggle greatly, of course, but I don’t balk at doors being held open for me or guys standing when I come to the table (admittedly, I can only think of two acquaintance-type friends who ever did this), etc.
But what the hell??
I absolutely and whole-heartedly cannot abide this at all. I cannot believe that any father would expect it, nor do I see how in any context it can be taken to be respectful. Of whom, exactly? The father? How? To me, it smacks far too much of a time when women were chattel (as they still are in parts of the world today), when their voice was not their own, when they were not allowed to be makers of their own destiny. That it’s largely a formality in our culture is beside the point and I find it neither charming, nor romantic.
I’m actually quite livid, the more I think about it. It’s something I still see in movies and on tv and I do my best not to squirm when it happens, even with characters I love. It’s one thing for a future-son-in-law to go to his fiances parents and…I don’t know, thank them for giving birth to her, to promise them he’ll make her happy, etc. It still seems kind of antiquated and cheesy, but the kind of cheese that tends to work on me. But to ask for permission? My entire life I have been surrounded by strong woman, woman who speak their mind, who make their own decisions. The idea that they-or I-would then have this life changing choice symbolically taken from them under the guise of “formality” is absurd and insulting.
I realize I’m making more out of this than is probably necessary, but I can’t help how strongly I feel about it. I cannot see it as respectful, even though there is no actual permission being asked. In fact, were my would-be fiancé to try such a thing…I’m not entirely sure we’d be as ready to marry as he’d be assuming. To think it was necessary, that I would desire it, or that my own father would be anything but baffled by it…it would illustrate how ill he knew me or my family. I honestly find the gesture exactly the opposite of what’s intended and would be nothing but disappointed if I knew my boyfriend had tried it. Gah!
(Of course, there is also the little gem, “So much for who will wear the pants in their family.”. As if this isn’t the 21st century!