Am I missing something?

[agriking]

I've been listening to people freaking out about Arizona's new immigration laws for three days now. The liberals seem to be missing the point regarding illegal immigrants, that being, they're ILLEGAL. I see nothing wrong with Arizona having the balls to stand up and enforce a law that the federal government enacted

Comments

[lakeguy]

yes people are either legal or they aren't

[agriking]

Exactly. Its a black or white issue.

[lakeguy]

ummm that could be taken really wrong..

White people can be just as illgeal as anyone else..

but I know that's not what you meant :P

[henkkuli]

Cute. Birth certificate trope.

The liberal -- and I use this word in the classical sense -- point regarding illegal immigration is that the legal/illegal distinction is irrelevant. Anti-immigration legislation is born out of nativism and isn't a new phenomenon in American history; consider attitudes toward postwar immigration (especially toward refugees from Europe), quotas on immigration from China way back when, etc. Immigration levels are a function of economy; as long as things are better here than they are there, people will come across. Policymakers should encourage the integration of immigrants into American society, not setting them apart. Vilifying people just reeks of nativist resentment, and misses the point more than the distinction between "legal" and "illegal." Just laws and all that.

The problem with Arizona's law is that it will require anyone who looks brown -- who, despite perceptions, are largely US citizens -- to carry identification with them because police will be empowered to stop them just because they look

[agriking]

Liberals always like to complicate a black and white issue by shading it gray. Illegal immigrants in Arizona is a real problem. They have been asking the federal government to do something about it for several administrations. While I'll admit the perception of a police state is a bit more severe than I'd like to see what are they supposed to do? The federal government has ignored the problem.

[tko_ak]

The federal government has ignored the problem, but this isn't going to solve the issue. And quite frankly, Arizona doesn't have the money to try and solve the immigration issue.

[agriking]

Actually it may solve the issue for Arizona as Mexicans say they well all leave the state. Its kind of like putting a band aid on the severed artery but its a temporary fix for Arizona itself. Plus I can't help but admire their initiative for states rights over the Obama nanny state sentiments currently prevailing.

[elgabez]

I like the idea of Obama accidentally stumbling across this and posting in the comments to try and explain his ideas. There would then be a long winded list of responses and counter arguments and quotations from classical writers and links to lists of data that nobody could possibly understand -- then "b_obamna" would say "hang, on I have an idea." and an hour later you'd hear a rumbling sound on your farm, and out would come Obama from his hellicopter saying "I hope you don't mind, but you're a microcosm for all my critics. If I can convince you, I can convince America!" and you frown and say "I don't see how this is a good use of your time. Besides, I have to milk the cows" and Oabama says "give me half an hour!" and you end up milking the cows whilst patiently hearing Obama extrapolate and burble, and at the end of it you say, "I still don't agree with you, but thanks for stopping by anyway." And Obama would look downcast and say "what else can I do?" and hold up his hands in defeat -- but later on you would see him laughing into

[agriking]

Have I ever mentioned that I really like the way your mind works?

[bdouville]

I like the way his mind works too, judging from what I see here.

[tko_ak]

All of my Arizona friends - even the conservative ones - are upset about it, although the polls suggest 70% of Arizonans support it.

The law allows local police agencies to enforce federal law (which requires immigrants to carry documentation proving their legality). That isn't a bad thing. But the problem is that it makes brown skin probable cause. If law enforcement thinks someone may be an immigrant, they can stop and detain them in order to check their status. For legal aliens, this shouldn't be a problem. But what about those who are citizens, but have an accent or don't look American? There are asshole cops on power trips, everywhere. Are these citizens supposed to carry their passport with them? How is it different from a national ID card?

If Arizona wants to make it simpler, they ought to just add something to AZ state ID cards that proves legality or citizenship.

[agriking]

This is interesting because everyone I've heard from that lives in Arizona (with one exception which is understandable because he's a Mexican immigrant) applauds this.

[amurderofcows]

There's plenty in this for conservatives to dislike. For one, making illegal immigrants (who are an essential part of the US economy, without whom a good chunk of it just wouldn't work) afraid of everyone with a badge drives them further and further into the arms of the very organized crime cartels causing the violence (more in Northern Mexico than in the US border states).

Arizona has manufactured much of its own problem by engaging, even before this law, in a wide range of measures to crack down on illegals which blew up in their face and made the situation worse. The really blatant way the Maricopa County Sheriff's Department has targeted Hispanics, even those legally in the US, poured gasoline on the fire and, quite obviously, fixed nothing.

A real solution would be a comprehensive federal immigration reform bill. But the Arizona law and the political firestorm around it has made that impossible this year; all the politicians working on it say the Arizona law has left all their potential allies running for cover. Legal

[tko_ak]

Well put.

And don't even get me started on Arpaio. The guy is an attention whore and a douche bag. In the scope of several of my criminal justice classes, we had law enforcement from a variety of agencies. Not a single one of them would say something positive about him.

It isn't just him, though. The City of Phoenix and he go round and round, but he has the support of the Maricopa County District Attorney, who holds some of his same view. That guy came to NAU a couple of years ago at the invitation of one of my professors (a Hispanic immigrant), and a riot just about broke out on campus. The students were actually very rude and were lucky they weren't arrested.

[loatiloat]

People are offended that *legal* immigrants and US Citizens from birth will be asked to show proof of citizenship under this law. And all of those people will be Latino or appear to be Latino.