Comments | aish_mlchmh: Midday Thoughts

aish_mlchmh

Midday Thoughts

Dec 20, 2008 12:33

Crowley personally instructed McMurtry to give "Signs" of the appropriate M.O.E. degrees prior to the performance of Liber Resh (footnote in Book IV). Moreover, one of the requirements for having an O.T.O. Profess House is that Liber Resh is punctually performed by the houses' inhabitants (which means that Crowley expected O.T.O. members to know ( Read more... )

uniformity of purpose, o.t.o., individualism run wild, practices

Comments 21

ozzzz666 December 20 2008, 19:37:58 UTC

So are you asserting that it somehow makes a person less of a Thelemite if they decide that the magickal system devised by Crowley doesn't fit in with their personal view of Thelema? I am a firm believer that one can be a Thelemite even if they never do a single banishing ritual. I am not one of these people myself, but I think that an individuals ritual work, spriritual path to enlightenment, and personal relationship with Liber AL, is something for them to discover on their own. In A.'.A.'. of course, one has affirmed that it is their will to work Crowley's system, but I think O.T.O. is more about Thelemic society, and personal development than any particular magickal or mystical system. I think as individuals, we should neither know, nor care what someone elses will is. Just my two cents.

93 93/93,
Oz

aish_mlchmh December 20 2008, 20:36:07 UTC

Actually, I don't recall mentioning Thelemites specifically with what I wrote. I seriously doubt a person could be a Thelemite as defined by Crowley (see The D Comment) and not put into practice to a large extent what Crowley instructed. Nor do I think excising the practices (particularly the yoga) from Crowley is particularly useful. Personally, I think such a person would be better off joining a Protestant sect where "works" amount to little if anything.

However, from what I can ascertain, you're defining a Thelemite in your own special way. As far as that goes, you should check out what Crowley has written in respect to defining a word like "Soul" and the trouble that's likely to result unless one's terms are clearly defined. Moreover, for myself, Crowley is the Prophet of the AEon (see the E.G.C. Priest Ordination). Like you as I may, you're not that.

I am not one of these people myself, but I think that an individuals ritual work, spriritual path to enlightenment, and personal relationship with Liber AL, is something for ( ... )

ozzzz666 December 21 2008, 00:59:16 UTC

No argument here Brother. I agree with most of what you're saying. I just think that (Within OTO) individuals must be allowed to find these truths for themselves, and to form their own relationships with Liber Al and Thelema...right or wrong. Especially in the early years of their "development". We can be examples (not that I am exactly a shining one), but ultimately each individual must blossom in the way that best suits their nature. Perhaps they will see the importance of these practices beyond just reading them as many others have and do... perhaps not. All you or I can do is OUR wills, and let that be an example which others may choose to follow or not. I am reminded of the end of Liber Porta Lucis ( ... )

aish_mlchmh December 21 2008, 01:57:41 UTC

I just think that (Within OTO) individuals must be allowed to find these truths for themselves

There are basic terms and practices that we - as a group and as individuals - need to be attuned to. Otherwise, "Is it not right that the world would treat the subject with scorn...?"

If we don't acknowledge A.C.'s teachings - including the practices, then I think we're doing ourselves and the membership a rather large disservice.

Again, as the G.M. has clearly noted:

"Our Thelema is that of the Book of the Law and the writings of Aleister Crowley"

and:

"Despite all our individual differences of manner, opinion, preference, interest, and enthusiasm, these are things on which we must agree."

Emphasis mine.

All you or I can do is OUR wills

If you Willingly choose to enter a religious Order such as the O.T.O., then you willingly choose to undergo a course of training. Making an appeal to individuality as an excuse to evade that course of training - After you have made that commitment - suggests to me a conflict.

I am reminded ( ... )

Thread 8

jetsiva December 20 2008, 19:47:37 UTC

I think what people are doing is making reservations about committing themselves to the Great Work. If they manage to neglect other practices, it makes me question their honesty and understanding. You can always test them by the empowered virtues these practices will create.

As of now, I prefer the "slightly fuller" version of Liber Resh.

stevensteven December 20 2008, 20:50:42 UTC

(or even some established expectations within a local body...)

Therein lies the key, but it has to come from the top. If the masters are not invested in the practices, it is unlikely the local members will be. I think many people come into the order with the best of intentions , and then model themselves on the existing behavior which is sometimes less than optimal.

As long as the EC refuses to interview masters before appointing them we will continue to wind up with some masters that are ambivalent or even hostile to the basic practices.

At the recent Kaaba at the social event in the bar at midnight several of my members and I and a few others stepped out to the sidewalk to do Resh. The number of order members that sat it out and looked askance at us saddened me.

thiebes December 21 2008, 00:56:52 UTC

Looked askance at you? Wow. That's amazing. These were attendees or presenters?

aish_mlchmh December 21 2008, 00:58:42 UTC

Therein lies the key

I would tend to agree.

but it has to come from the top.

I think it has. To quote the G.M.:

"Our Thelema is that of the Book of the Law and the writings of Aleister Crowley-the Master Therion, the Prophet of the Aeon of Horus.

This is what we are about, and this is what we are-our guide is the Book of the Law, and our Law is “Do What Thou Wilt.”

Despite all our individual differences of manner, opinion, preference, interest, and enthusiasm, these are things on which we must agree."

Emphasis mine.

I don't know how more fucking clear the G.M. has to be.

The writings of A.C. (whom Sabazius identifies with 666) are imperative to this process - and (believe it or not) that includes practices such as Liber ReshIf people in positions of authority under the G.M. are willfully ignoring these writings by, for example ( ... )

daimonos December 21 2008, 15:13:18 UTC

As long as the EC refuses to interview masters before appointing them we will continue to wind up with some masters that are ambivalent or even hostile to the basic practices.I've been thinking about this comment for some hours now. In the UK at least, body masters do not grow on trees. New body masters typically emerge as local leaders in their area. Beyond the confidence of the EC, as you know they otherwise need first the drive and will to do the job. I'd never expect a body master to 'look askance' at Resh, a practice we encourage. We always prefer folk to lead by example rather than do something because 'the EC (my initiator, body master, Grand Lodge, Grand Master, etc) says so.' That's not what any of us are about after all ( ... )

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