Real Thelemites

[aish_mlchmh]

"Real Thelemites don't improvise Class A material."

-James and Nancy Wasserman, To Perfect This Feast

I'd also add that real O.T.O. members don't go out of their way to diminish the books (which includes the practices) recommended for A.'.A.'. - particularly, as these (according to Crowley), also "suit O.T.O."

Comments

[elnigma]

Real Thelemites do what they wilt.

[aish_mlchmh]

That assumes that there are more than one (i.e., there is no "they" in reference to your disqualification as a Thelemite). "With O.T.O. you only become a magician, and a priest of the Holy One..."

[elnigma]

Pagans think there is more than one g-d. I don't think that means any insult to those who believe there is only one. Or to those people who focus on only one. Or that think that all g-ds are One.
Nor does that stop pagans from thinking or focusing or believing in only one at one time, particularly where it is useful.
But yeah, pagans think there are many.
This is not paralleling, but it is about "ones" - When people talk about the universe, they typically mean this one. But someone can think there is more than one and still understand and learn from talk about this one. This is the one in most if not all people's perceptions after all.

[aish_mlchmh]

This is not paralleling, but it is about "ones"

We disagree then, as for myself, one is one and not something else. "Thou that art one" (with the third step) as well as Crowley's note of what the O.T.O. manifests all point to monotheism - which is a recurrent theme;"monotheism is not true for the normal consciousness, but only for that of the adept." And again: "The PRIESTESS and other officers never partake of the Sacrament, they being as it were part of the PRIEST himself." The parts of the god are not of themselves, one (in contrast to "all g-ds are One").

[asicath]

What is that in reference to? Improvise, meaning to make up their own class A material on the spot?

[aish_mlchmh]

Its referring to the speeches containing Class A quotations in Liber XV from their book To Perfect this Feast.

Here's another interesting quote:

"The second key concept is that the Priestess is regarded quite differently from the Priest. She enters the Temple, is saluted by all, approaches the High Altar, energizes the Sacred Space with her walk, and is now in a position to elevate the Priest from his darkened condition. See Chapter 3 of The Book of Lies, The Oyster, "The Brothers of A.'.A.'. are Women: the Aspirants to A.'.A.'. are Men." The fact that the Priestess is viewed as of sufficient spiritual purity to conduct these actions prior to her own elevation by the Priest (that will take place shortly at the Altar) is strong evidence that the common slurs directed against Thelema and O.T.O. as being either male-centric, anti-feminine, or paternal, are a misunderstanding of our doctrine."

[dyta93]

This is a man's world, But it wouldn't be nothing, nothing without a woman or a girl. - James Brown

I have also heard of the similar interpretation of the Jewish faith, that women are part of God and that men are aspirants to becoming one with God again. (That was an explanation given to me about the role of women in the practices)

Typically the view of male-centric that I have come across has been more based on the egos and actions (primarily along with quoting one particular statement of that womena are without souls made by Crowley one of the Libers) of a small handful of the male members and not taking in consideration of the whole or the doctrine. But of course there is that all men are dogs and it takes a woman to make them a god. :D

[aish_mlchmh]

I have also heard of the similar interpretation of the Jewish faith, that women are part of God and that men are aspirants to becoming one with God again. (That was an explanation given to me about the role of women in the practices)

In contrast to what I've experienced in respect to Judaism (prohibition against learning Qabalah - Gnana yoga- being one example), within Thelema women are in complete control of the sword or intellect.

(primarily along with quoting one particular statement of that womena are without souls made by Crowley one of the Libers)In one of the letters by Hirsig, she (jokingly) describes herself as "souless" which suggests to me that she was more than a little familiar with Crowley's doctrine regarding the soul. Considering the modern emphasis put on the strength of the women within Thelema (Jane Wolfe, Leah Hirsig,etc.) its curious to me that they didn't appear to have the issues with this doctrine that a number of women currently have. Did Crowley explain this to them to their satisfaction or did they

[trueheart]

I am loving this book.

[aish_mlchmh]

It certainly has some interesting ideas.

At the Mass I celebrated this past month, I "set" the Priestess (with a little help!) onto the altar vide the book's directions - and emphasis - to actually do that.

[jetsiva]

There are very few real Thelemites.

Re: What is a real Thelemite?

[elnigma]

Is it "unthelemic" to benefit out of Crowley but not worship Crowley nor think him the sole magician, wise one, only word, whatever? Is it unthelemic to think the same consecrations Crowley had are available to everyone with the will/luck? (In fact many opportunities rare in his day are much easier to find now.) Nobody is going to be the same as he was, and how much mimicry is in each person's "will" - or "should be" in order to call them "Thelemites"?

Re: What is a real Thelemite?

[elnigma]

I'd feel awkward telling stories. LOL