The plot can be wonky, the pacing and direction of an episode can be wonky (this one felt a bit like it was trying to find its legs) but JFC the characterization. fuck me, the characterization was so great.
Oh gosh yes. The ep had a fucktonne of exposition to deliver, which is I think where a lot of the pacing issues came in--in order to service our need-to-know about the last year for all three of the guys, some things wound up feeling crammed in--but the info itself was good, and established each of the guys' mindsets from here on out, which is generally a good way to start a story, after all.
And the characterisations were FANTASTIC. The best stories are told when both sides are right *and* both sides are wrong, and since both Sam and Dean's perspectives on what they chose to do over the last year are very clear--if, on some matters, at odds--that can only mean good things for the story as it unfolds.
Yes, exactly! I think it's the structure that could have used some work, and I'm not positive the flashback for all three characters thing is going to work well, but I can't bring myself to care all that much right now because DAMN.
The show is always at its best imo when the characters are in conflict and yet you understand and empathize with every character's emotional reality, and that was so great here.
So Sam not even bothering to look for Dean at all made perfect sense to you and rang completely true to Sam's characterization in the rest of the series? Really? Okay. o.O
I feel Sam was off too. If in fact he never even looked to see if Dean was alive then I find his behavior incomprehensible and irredeemable. Dean I understood. Sam was so OOC that I can't even connect.
I don't see that at all. I see Sam...exhausted. They've been doing a variation on this theme and over again for so much of their lives, and every time, one of them ends up on the other end of something awful. There's no escape from it. And Sam had no options, no support structure. It seems pretty clear he wasn't necessarily looking to settle down, but it happened by accident, and that feels very IC for all Winchesters (John and Adam's mother, Dean and Lisa, etc.) in general -- they're so focused on something else, they get broadsided by something they never thought they would be allowed to want.
I think if you put yourself in Sam's shoes, taking a few months to catch your breath and catch your bearings after being on the run for 7+ years of your actual life (and in Hell for countless years as well) really isn't inexplicable or surprising.
I completely agree! I adored all the back and forth between the brothers, and mostly, I think they were dealing with a well-written script. But they really dropped the ball with regard to the flashbacks. The first one, Dean's, wasn't too bad. But Sam's was just terrible. For all the reasons. I hate flashbacks that segway by way of visual cues. It often comes across as really cheesy, as it certainly did with Sam's. Lost was awesome for that. The flashbacks were always intelligently integrated, thematically. And you got very little of this *staring longingly at whatever because it reminds you of whatever* business! It kinda left me confused, because I though the writers (like you said, character development) and director (the opening teaser for example. So awesome!) had some excellent moments, but there were a couple that were pretty lackluster.
I'll always keep watching though! Because they do this part so well: they're just human beings trying to figure out how to deal with what's happened to them, human beings with very different
( ... )
AUUUGH THE FLASHBACKS. Okay on rewatch, Dean's flashbacks weren't terribly integrated (tho pensive staring), but a little awkward. SAM'S WERE SO TERRIBLE. OMG PENSIVELY STARING AT A RANDOM DOOOG IT REMINDS HIM OF THE DOG HE HIIIIT. Poor Sam. Kevin's second flashback was pretty good, because it was while he was filling Sam and Dean in, so no pensive staring required.
I was in Highlander fandom, so I'm used to flashbacks and flashbacks from visual cues, and they can work, though more often yeah, awkward. it's just one of those things that doesn't work that well in a visual medium, even if yeah, sometimes we as people get lost in thought remembering things, while staring pensively into space.
I agree about Lost, it was pretty good at the flashbacks.
I wish I knew more about directing, because I think I didn't really like the directing of this one but I don't have the vocabulary to express why.
YES YES YES. THE CHARACTERIZATION WAS JUST YEEESSSS. And I agree the flow was.. wonky. In part because all of the flashbacks had very different emotional tenors. IDK how they could have really resolved that tho, because obviously part of the arc tension is going to be what happened in the past so you can't just, dump it all in at once. And it's Winchesters so really talking about it is out. And you also need to give them all some POV time so.. yeah.
Yeah, the first half vs second half was also a wonky tone change. It felt like two separate episodes to me.
I think we tweeted about how I'd love for the first half of the season to have been the parallel storylines (Dean in Purgatory, Sam and Amelia, The Adventures of Kevin) but yeah, the fandom would have hated that with unholy and terrifying passion.
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Oh gosh yes. The ep had a fucktonne of exposition to deliver, which is I think where a lot of the pacing issues came in--in order to service our need-to-know about the last year for all three of the guys, some things wound up feeling crammed in--but the info itself was good, and established each of the guys' mindsets from here on out, which is generally a good way to start a story, after all.
And the characterisations were FANTASTIC. The best stories are told when both sides are right *and* both sides are wrong, and since both Sam and Dean's perspectives on what they chose to do over the last year are very clear--if, on some matters, at odds--that can only mean good things for the story as it unfolds.
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The show is always at its best imo when the characters are in conflict and yet you understand and empathize with every character's emotional reality, and that was so great here.
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I think if you put yourself in Sam's shoes, taking a few months to catch your breath and catch your bearings after being on the run for 7+ years of your actual life (and in Hell for countless years as well) really isn't inexplicable or surprising.
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I'll always keep watching though! Because they do this part so well: they're just human beings trying to figure out how to deal with what's happened to them, human beings with very different ( ... )
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I was in Highlander fandom, so I'm used to flashbacks and flashbacks from visual cues, and they can work, though more often yeah, awkward. it's just one of those things that doesn't work that well in a visual medium, even if yeah, sometimes we as people get lost in thought remembering things, while staring pensively into space.
I agree about Lost, it was pretty good at the flashbacks.
I wish I knew more about directing, because I think I didn't really like the directing of this one but I don't have the vocabulary to express why.
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I think we tweeted about how I'd love for the first half of the season to have been the parallel storylines (Dean in Purgatory, Sam and Amelia, The Adventures of Kevin) but yeah, the fandom would have hated that with unholy and terrifying passion.
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