lol debate
I took notes during the presidential debate that just completed, and here they are. I started this with the intention of counting how often each candidate evaded the question, but they surprised me by not evading very much at all, so the notes evolved into generalized notes.
question 1:
at this very moment tonight, where do you stand on the financial recovery plan?
Obama: answers the question, vaguely. Outlines what he thinks a solution will entail but doesn't say how he will accomplish these things.
McCain: answers the question, even more vaguely. Says that a solution is necessary, mentions going back to Washington, doesn't give any details.
Obama: thinks that a plan is being worked on, thinks that we need to figure out how we got here, says "I told ya so."
McCain: says that he will vote for the plan, also says "I told ya so," invokes Eisenhower! Wants to hold people accountable.
Obama: agrees that accountability is necessary, but thinks that this should happen before a crisis comes down. Reminds McCain that he said, 10 days ago, that the fundamentals of our economy are sound. Invokes tax policy favoring the wealthy.
McCain: agrees that we need to fix things. Love in! Again invokes accountability in government agencies, and waves the flag a bit. Rah rah America!
question 2:
are there differences between what you would do and what Obama would do as President to lead us out of this crisis?
McCain: "we republicans came to power to change government, and government changed us," slams earmarking, $3 million to study the DNA of bears in Montana is apparently evil, promises to veto all spending bills! points fingers at Obama for his earmarks
Obama: agrees that earmarks have been abused and claims that he's suspended all his earmark requests for his state, McCain will give tax cuts of $300 billion to corporations and the wealthy, and only save $18 billion in earmarks, Obama will give tax breaks to ordinary people!
McCain: talks a lot about earmarks. Earmarks corrupt, absolute earmarks corrupt absolutely! Obama will spend $800 billion!
Obama: objects to McCain's characterization, gives actual details about his plans! Claims that McCain's tax policy neglects ordinary people, and McCain's focus on earmarks is myopic
McCain: Irish businesses pay less tax than American businesses. So he wants to cut business taxes in order to retain business. Doesn't call that trickle-down economics. Goes back to earmarks! Finally gives some details about his own tax plan. People will be surprised by what Obama calls rich!
Obama: 95% of people will get tax cuts! McCain won't close loopholes but Obama will! McCain will tax health benefits for the first time in history, explains that this is a market-oriented vision
McCain: won't let the moderator go to the next question! Yammers on for quite some time after the time for this question expired! Brings up his $42,000 a year story, after time expires!
Obama: keeps up the after-time yammering! McCain opposes a bill that includes offshore drilling because it cuts tax breaks for big oil!
question 3:
as president, as a result of whatever financial rescue plan comes about, what are you going to have to give up to pay for the financial rescue plan?
Obama: we have to fix energy, fix healthcare, fix education, fix infrastructure, so instead we will eliminate programs that don't work but doesn't say what any of those are
McCain: we have to cut spending! Jabs Obama for being so far on the left that he can't reach the aisle. Actually mentions a couple of things that he would change: eliminate ethanol subsidies, cut wasteful defense spending. Then goes vague
Moderator: so the financial bailout won't change anything for you?
Obama: we have to fix energy! finally gets to details, he would trim wasteful spending in Medicare. Objects to McCain's characterization of him as wildly liberal, says that he's just opposing Bush, touts his record of working with Colburn.
Moderator: yes, yes, but how is the financial crisis going to affect you in =major= ways?
McCain: spending freeze! except for a couple of things. Yay veterans!
Obama: a spending freeze is stupid, also why are we spending money in Iraq? Let's just end the Iraq war!
McCain: we send money overseas! We need lots of domestic sources of energy so that doesn't happen! OMG TERRORISTS
Moderator: so are you going to acknowledge that this financial crisis is actually going to affect the way you rule the country?
Obama: it will affect our budgets! then touts the bailout plan by invoking Roosevelt. Yay values! Go America!
McCain: cut spending! Obama will spend $800 billion! Yay veterans!
Obama: Bush is at fault! And McCain agrees with Bush! Boo Bush!
McCain: he's a maverick
question 4:
much has been said about the lessons of vietnam - what do you see as the lessons of Iraq
McCain: you can't have a failed strategy (???) touts the counterinsurgency, our troops will come home and not in defeat and we will have a friendly partner in Iraq!
Obama: we shouldn't have gone into Iraq at all, expounds on this some, says "I told ya so," mentions that al-Qaeda is still strong, and we are spending lots of money there
McCain: don't look back, look forward! Obama said the surge wouldn't work! But now says that it worked well! and yet said that he would still vote against it! Obama never met with Petraeus! Even though he's on some committee.
Moderator: what about your not going to meet Petraeus?
Obama: Because it's a committee for a reason, I don't do the whole work of the committee by myself, and hey, did you know that the war started in 2003 and not 2007? What happened to the quick-and-easy war, where we would be greeted as liberators, and there was no sectarian violence?
McCain: Obama doesn't know the diff between a tactic and a strategy! tells a story, optimistic about Iraq, Obama didn't want to fund troops!
Obama: McCain didn't want to fund troops either, if there was a timetable attached. McCain turned to Iraq before Afghanistan was taken care of, wants to reduce troops in Iraq and boost troops in Afghanistan.
McCain: Iraq is still the central battleground! Obama would snatch defeat from the jaws of victory!
question 5:
do you think more US troops should be sent to Afghanistan, how many and when?
Obama: yes, and asap, but we have to take troops out of Iraq first, and then I'd send 2-3 brigades. Oh, and Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. We also need the Afghan government to start working, to cut the poppy trade, and we need to look at Pakistan.
McCain: won't repeat the mistake of withdrawing from the region a la after the Soviets pulled out. not prepared to cut aid to Pakistan and therefore he won't threaten Pakistan, Obama will threaten Pakistan and launch military strike, also Obama is naive for saying that out loud. McCain has been there! Finally answers the question and says that more troops are needed, but that's not the only thing we need.
Obama: objects to McCain saying that he wants to attack Pakistan, says that what he actually said is that he would strike at Osama bin Ladin in Pakistan, also brings up "bomb bomb Iran", our problems in Pakistan are of our own making
McCain: Obama doesn't understand Pakistan! McCain does! yaps a lot about his military experience, tells a story and goes back to Iraq
Obama: counters with his own touching story! some empty praise of the troops. we need to focus on Afghanistan and al-Qaeda, not Iraq, brings up McCain saying that we had to muddle through Afghanistan
McCain: Obama hasn't been to Afghanistan! McCain has!
question 6:
what is your reading of the threat from Iran right now to the security of the United States?
McCain: if Iran gets nukes, it is an EXISTENTIAL threat! we can't allow a second holocaust (what?) Russia is blocking action in the UN and preventing us from doing useful stuff! goes back to Iraq!
Obama: also goes back to Iraq! the war in Iraq has helped Iran! if Iran gets nukes, that would be Bad, however we can't bypass Russia and China in this. Obama thinks that we need direct diplomacy, whereas McCain thinks we should shun them instead
McCain: Obama will sit down with foreign leaders without precondition! OH NOES! McCain would never do that!
Obama: would reserve the right to actually meet with people, points out that McCain's own advisors recommend meeting with people without precondition BURN! diplomacy may not work, but its worth a shot, and McCain wouldn't even meet with Spain!
McCain: brings up Obama's "seal" in passing, says that Kissinger didn't say what Obama says he said, Obama just doesn't understand! South Koreans are three inches taller than North Koreans (what??)
Obama: McCain is mischaracterizing Obama's position, and Kissinger DID TOO say that!
McCain: diplomacy is apparently very simplistic! And Kissinger DID NOT EITHER say that!
question 7:
how do you see the relationship with Russia? Competitor, enemy, or potential partner?
Obama: we've screwed up on Russia recently, obviously, and need to deal with it differently, frankly loses my interest which is ironic considering that I have to write a paper on Russia next month
McCain: Obama is naive and doesn't understand about Russia! McCain has been to Georgia! What Russia did in Georgia was Bad
Obama: agrees with McCain that it was Bad and objects to McCain saying that Obama didn't say it was Bad, says "I told ya so," somehow gets back onto oil and alternative energy
McCain: yammers some about alternative energy
Moderator: We need to get to another question already
McCain: no, and nuclear waste!
Obama: okay let's move on
question 8:
what do you think the odds are of another 9/11 attack on the US
McCain: less than it was on 9/12, we are safer now, and McCain works across the aisle! he is bipartisan! admits that we have tortured prisoners (!!) our civil servants are awesome! yay america!
Obama: we are safer in some ways but have a long way to go yet, goes back to nuclear proliferation, also al-Qaeda is still a threat, the feed cut out for a minute or so here, yay america!
McCain: for some reason brings up SDI and returns to Iraq, says that we can't go with Obama's plan with Iraq
Obama: the feed cut out again and when it came back he had wandered into veterans benefits for some reason
McCain: there's advantage to experience and Obama is naive! also, he supports veterans
Obama: touching story about his father, YAY AMERICA
McCain: McCain is a POW! Did you know that???
Overall, I'd say that it wasn't so much that Obama won, that McCain lost. He came across as a crotchety old man who wants that damned kid (Obama) off his lawn. About a third of the way in, he started to get really condescending, and then that became his theme. It's not an attractive theme. Neither was Obama's theme of "I told ya so," but I think McCain's was less attractive.
question 1:
at this very moment tonight, where do you stand on the financial recovery plan?
Obama: answers the question, vaguely. Outlines what he thinks a solution will entail but doesn't say how he will accomplish these things.
McCain: answers the question, even more vaguely. Says that a solution is necessary, mentions going back to Washington, doesn't give any details.
Obama: thinks that a plan is being worked on, thinks that we need to figure out how we got here, says "I told ya so."
McCain: says that he will vote for the plan, also says "I told ya so," invokes Eisenhower! Wants to hold people accountable.
Obama: agrees that accountability is necessary, but thinks that this should happen before a crisis comes down. Reminds McCain that he said, 10 days ago, that the fundamentals of our economy are sound. Invokes tax policy favoring the wealthy.
McCain: agrees that we need to fix things. Love in! Again invokes accountability in government agencies, and waves the flag a bit. Rah rah America!
question 2:
are there differences between what you would do and what Obama would do as President to lead us out of this crisis?
McCain: "we republicans came to power to change government, and government changed us," slams earmarking, $3 million to study the DNA of bears in Montana is apparently evil, promises to veto all spending bills! points fingers at Obama for his earmarks
Obama: agrees that earmarks have been abused and claims that he's suspended all his earmark requests for his state, McCain will give tax cuts of $300 billion to corporations and the wealthy, and only save $18 billion in earmarks, Obama will give tax breaks to ordinary people!
McCain: talks a lot about earmarks. Earmarks corrupt, absolute earmarks corrupt absolutely! Obama will spend $800 billion!
Obama: objects to McCain's characterization, gives actual details about his plans! Claims that McCain's tax policy neglects ordinary people, and McCain's focus on earmarks is myopic
McCain: Irish businesses pay less tax than American businesses. So he wants to cut business taxes in order to retain business. Doesn't call that trickle-down economics. Goes back to earmarks! Finally gives some details about his own tax plan. People will be surprised by what Obama calls rich!
Obama: 95% of people will get tax cuts! McCain won't close loopholes but Obama will! McCain will tax health benefits for the first time in history, explains that this is a market-oriented vision
McCain: won't let the moderator go to the next question! Yammers on for quite some time after the time for this question expired! Brings up his $42,000 a year story, after time expires!
Obama: keeps up the after-time yammering! McCain opposes a bill that includes offshore drilling because it cuts tax breaks for big oil!
question 3:
as president, as a result of whatever financial rescue plan comes about, what are you going to have to give up to pay for the financial rescue plan?
Obama: we have to fix energy, fix healthcare, fix education, fix infrastructure, so instead we will eliminate programs that don't work but doesn't say what any of those are
McCain: we have to cut spending! Jabs Obama for being so far on the left that he can't reach the aisle. Actually mentions a couple of things that he would change: eliminate ethanol subsidies, cut wasteful defense spending. Then goes vague
Moderator: so the financial bailout won't change anything for you?
Obama: we have to fix energy! finally gets to details, he would trim wasteful spending in Medicare. Objects to McCain's characterization of him as wildly liberal, says that he's just opposing Bush, touts his record of working with Colburn.
Moderator: yes, yes, but how is the financial crisis going to affect you in =major= ways?
McCain: spending freeze! except for a couple of things. Yay veterans!
Obama: a spending freeze is stupid, also why are we spending money in Iraq? Let's just end the Iraq war!
McCain: we send money overseas! We need lots of domestic sources of energy so that doesn't happen! OMG TERRORISTS
Moderator: so are you going to acknowledge that this financial crisis is actually going to affect the way you rule the country?
Obama: it will affect our budgets! then touts the bailout plan by invoking Roosevelt. Yay values! Go America!
McCain: cut spending! Obama will spend $800 billion! Yay veterans!
Obama: Bush is at fault! And McCain agrees with Bush! Boo Bush!
McCain: he's a maverick
question 4:
much has been said about the lessons of vietnam - what do you see as the lessons of Iraq
McCain: you can't have a failed strategy (???) touts the counterinsurgency, our troops will come home and not in defeat and we will have a friendly partner in Iraq!
Obama: we shouldn't have gone into Iraq at all, expounds on this some, says "I told ya so," mentions that al-Qaeda is still strong, and we are spending lots of money there
McCain: don't look back, look forward! Obama said the surge wouldn't work! But now says that it worked well! and yet said that he would still vote against it! Obama never met with Petraeus! Even though he's on some committee.
Moderator: what about your not going to meet Petraeus?
Obama: Because it's a committee for a reason, I don't do the whole work of the committee by myself, and hey, did you know that the war started in 2003 and not 2007? What happened to the quick-and-easy war, where we would be greeted as liberators, and there was no sectarian violence?
McCain: Obama doesn't know the diff between a tactic and a strategy! tells a story, optimistic about Iraq, Obama didn't want to fund troops!
Obama: McCain didn't want to fund troops either, if there was a timetable attached. McCain turned to Iraq before Afghanistan was taken care of, wants to reduce troops in Iraq and boost troops in Afghanistan.
McCain: Iraq is still the central battleground! Obama would snatch defeat from the jaws of victory!
question 5:
do you think more US troops should be sent to Afghanistan, how many and when?
Obama: yes, and asap, but we have to take troops out of Iraq first, and then I'd send 2-3 brigades. Oh, and Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. We also need the Afghan government to start working, to cut the poppy trade, and we need to look at Pakistan.
McCain: won't repeat the mistake of withdrawing from the region a la after the Soviets pulled out. not prepared to cut aid to Pakistan and therefore he won't threaten Pakistan, Obama will threaten Pakistan and launch military strike, also Obama is naive for saying that out loud. McCain has been there! Finally answers the question and says that more troops are needed, but that's not the only thing we need.
Obama: objects to McCain saying that he wants to attack Pakistan, says that what he actually said is that he would strike at Osama bin Ladin in Pakistan, also brings up "bomb bomb Iran", our problems in Pakistan are of our own making
McCain: Obama doesn't understand Pakistan! McCain does! yaps a lot about his military experience, tells a story and goes back to Iraq
Obama: counters with his own touching story! some empty praise of the troops. we need to focus on Afghanistan and al-Qaeda, not Iraq, brings up McCain saying that we had to muddle through Afghanistan
McCain: Obama hasn't been to Afghanistan! McCain has!
question 6:
what is your reading of the threat from Iran right now to the security of the United States?
McCain: if Iran gets nukes, it is an EXISTENTIAL threat! we can't allow a second holocaust (what?) Russia is blocking action in the UN and preventing us from doing useful stuff! goes back to Iraq!
Obama: also goes back to Iraq! the war in Iraq has helped Iran! if Iran gets nukes, that would be Bad, however we can't bypass Russia and China in this. Obama thinks that we need direct diplomacy, whereas McCain thinks we should shun them instead
McCain: Obama will sit down with foreign leaders without precondition! OH NOES! McCain would never do that!
Obama: would reserve the right to actually meet with people, points out that McCain's own advisors recommend meeting with people without precondition BURN! diplomacy may not work, but its worth a shot, and McCain wouldn't even meet with Spain!
McCain: brings up Obama's "seal" in passing, says that Kissinger didn't say what Obama says he said, Obama just doesn't understand! South Koreans are three inches taller than North Koreans (what??)
Obama: McCain is mischaracterizing Obama's position, and Kissinger DID TOO say that!
McCain: diplomacy is apparently very simplistic! And Kissinger DID NOT EITHER say that!
question 7:
how do you see the relationship with Russia? Competitor, enemy, or potential partner?
Obama: we've screwed up on Russia recently, obviously, and need to deal with it differently, frankly loses my interest which is ironic considering that I have to write a paper on Russia next month
McCain: Obama is naive and doesn't understand about Russia! McCain has been to Georgia! What Russia did in Georgia was Bad
Obama: agrees with McCain that it was Bad and objects to McCain saying that Obama didn't say it was Bad, says "I told ya so," somehow gets back onto oil and alternative energy
McCain: yammers some about alternative energy
Moderator: We need to get to another question already
McCain: no, and nuclear waste!
Obama: okay let's move on
question 8:
what do you think the odds are of another 9/11 attack on the US
McCain: less than it was on 9/12, we are safer now, and McCain works across the aisle! he is bipartisan! admits that we have tortured prisoners (!!) our civil servants are awesome! yay america!
Obama: we are safer in some ways but have a long way to go yet, goes back to nuclear proliferation, also al-Qaeda is still a threat, the feed cut out for a minute or so here, yay america!
McCain: for some reason brings up SDI and returns to Iraq, says that we can't go with Obama's plan with Iraq
Obama: the feed cut out again and when it came back he had wandered into veterans benefits for some reason
McCain: there's advantage to experience and Obama is naive! also, he supports veterans
Obama: touching story about his father, YAY AMERICA
McCain: McCain is a POW! Did you know that???
Overall, I'd say that it wasn't so much that Obama won, that McCain lost. He came across as a crotchety old man who wants that damned kid (Obama) off his lawn. About a third of the way in, he started to get really condescending, and then that became his theme. It's not an attractive theme. Neither was Obama's theme of "I told ya so," but I think McCain's was less attractive.