Amor Patriae

[ancientwisdom]

Uncle Sam and the Freedom Fighters (an eight-issue series from DC that re-launches a classic cast of World War Two characters including Phantom Lady, The Human Bomb, Doll Man, and the Ray, among others) has me thinking about on differences between “patriotism” and, well, something BETTER than patriotism

Comments

[drake_rocket]

I don't know if I entirely agree with the supposed analysis of Love vs Violence or the definition of either term in this context. The notion of loving one's country I do not agree is defined simply by allowing freedom and never imposing any sorts of restrictions. Indeed, total freedom is rarely found to be all that desirable. The sort of thinking tied into ideas like this is frequently happy to limit the freedoms of the powerful in society and think of them as unworthy of protections simply because they are better off than others. This isn't at all an equitable way of thinking about things. Freedom of choice is also freedom to do things like hate others, spend money how one wants and buy whatever one wants. A plurality of views cannot always exist freely in a society because many views are contradictory to one another. This makes the inclusion of them in law, which is needed for any given stable society, inherently "violent" by this definition. A pro-life individual believes in protecting "children", who they feel are very much

[drydem]

I am anti-patriotism. too much of patriotism is tied up in a Hegelian notion of national spirit which rests on the notion that the place of one's birth in some way influences to whom someone should ascribe their loyalty. Accident of birth in no way makes me want to support the US government wholesale. I like to think that I am free to reach such a conclusion on my own.
The worst part of national identity, in my opinion, come in armed forces drafts and anti-suicide laws. The implication that my life is not my own to do with as I please is simply repugnant to me. So, when it comes down to it, I feel that patriotism(based on the notion of the parentage of a nation) is a destructive, antiquated notion, personally.

[drake_rocket]

While I naturally think your opinion is your own to have, I really must disagree that patriotism is destructive. Blind faith in one's country, like blind faith in most anything, is, of course, dangerous. But having pride in a nation that one is a part of is not wrong or antiquated. It should not be required, certainly, but if it is had willingly then it is can be a positive thing. Patriotism, particularly in this nation, is not about supporting the US government wholesale, whatever 2000-2008 rhetoric might suggest. Patriotism is about a great number of things and can be expressed in a great number of ways, some supportive of the government, some critical of it and many completely apolitical

[wo0rg]

>Voting against Bush or standing in protest of the war is no less patriotic than voting for him or attending a "support our troops" rally.<<

Many are trying to make it seem, as if these actions "are" unpatriotic... that you cannot vote against the president.. or stand in protest of the war, and still call yourself an American. some (Ann coulter and other Republican pundits) have even gone as far to say that if you do not support the war then you are in leauge with all those who wish to destroy this country.. that is the political hate and fear-mongering that is worming its way into our society..

[drake_rocket]

I am not denying that there are those who are trying to use nationalistic ideas to that end. I do not, however, think that minority (and yes, compared to the population of America they do not constitute 51%) does not get to define what I think patriotism means. Much as a minority of Islamic extremists do not get to invalidate and make wicked an entire faith, the morons who use the term patriotism to describe blind support for president Bush do not get to ruin the idea of national pride/love/affection.

[swan_tower]

This is interesting to chew on in light of my reading for Midnight Never Come, and the ways in which validating Elizabeth as a female ruler (and unmarried) required a higher degree of identification than usual between the ruler's body and the body politic: Elizabeth = England, in a way that nobody before her (or possibly after) did, so that a threat to the country was a threat to the queen, and vice versa. It had its dark side, certainly, but I think we're seeing an even darker side in the conflation of our current president with America. Criticize Bush, and you criticize America. Dislike Bush, and you dislike America.

[fullygroan]

i would tootaally tap england.

[wo0rg]

National identity is always going to be a double edged sword, it can unite people in a time of crisis when they are under attack and give others a sense of hope.. but it can also be manipulated by unscrupulous individuals to prosecute their own agenda (be they unfounded wars or racial cleansing.) I have spent some time out of the country and I have come to realize how terribly ignorant the “American” people are of the rest of the world

[fullygroan]

is it nationalism without globalism?
the world isn't the infinite place it once was,
and aggressive nationalism with a hostile immigration policy
makes it easy for the angriest of people
to also have the loudest patriot's voice.