To Risk the Pain

[angearia]

After watching a bunch of Spuffy Productions Spike/Buffy videos last night, I felt a hankering to watch my favorite couple on TV. This led to a quick marathon of Touched, End of Days and Chosen. Here's some thoughts on Buffy and Spike and love:

Comments

[gabrielleabelle]

Well, my thoughts on Spike probably depend on which day you ask me. ;)

As of my latest rewatch, I tend to think that Spike knew the end was coming. As in, the end of his life. He'd been ready to give up the ghost, as it were, back in Sleeper. However, I don't think even souled!Spike would be blind to all the efforts Buffy was making on his behalf. He also knew what Cassie had told him back in Help: that she would tell him one day.

I think what we see in the conversation of EoD that you quoted up there is Spike trying to get that declaration from Buffy before the world ends or he dies. He thinks he's running on limited time, and he doesn't want to be the one pushing at Buffy anymore (especially after S6). So he's waiting for her, and he's picking up on the massive hints she's dropping all around, but he wants to hear it before he burns up.

I always notice that after Buffy's declaration in Chosen, Spike does a little exhale/chuckle. Like he finds it funny. I think he sees the irony in her finally saying it right before he dies. Like

[angearia]

Oh, I like your thoughts. *absorbs them* I think you're shaping my view of this now. I still think he's extremely uncertain of her, though. But I like thinking he's aware of the irony of her declaration and his awareness of his time coming to a close soon. But I still think there's a part of him that doesn't believe he's worth it, worth loving, that he's not good enough, and that maybe Buffy's doing so much for him out of pity and responsibility. Like, I'd take your interpretation, but give it a hefty dose of self-doubt. Like how you say your opinion changes from day to day with Spike, well I think Spike's views change from day to day because of his varying degrees of confidence and self-doubt. So he's never sure in his belief of much at all because he's still trying to figure out who he is now.

[gabrielleabelle]

Clearly, we must merge our two interpretations. *g*

My view is very easily influenced by whatever meta/fanfic I'm reading, although it tends to stay in the general area of what I outlined above. I'll give you the self-doubt, though. I think seeing Buffy and Angel snogging, especially, shook him in Chosen.

However, I can't get my head around the idea that Spike didn't believe Buffy. Because he knows her far too well. And, like he says in Touched, she's the only thing he's ever been sure of. Whatever insecurities he may have about his own worth, he still has unconditional faith in Buffy. He knows that Riley didn't get a pity-declaration, and I don't think Spike imagines he would get one either. He believed her. The timing was just wrong.

[angearia]

*merges* WE ARE ONE

[gabrielleabelle]

Wait, how does he know Riley didn't get a pity-declaration?

Granted, we don't. I'm extrapolating wildly. :)

(basically, imagine Spike as an unwilling Buffy/Angel fan in the sense of interpreting how Buffy feels).

But by the same token, there's not much to suggest that Angel's a major issue with Spike in S7 with regards to Buffy's feelings. The most we get is his peevishness at the Buffy/Angel kissage, but that's then overshadowed by Buffy giving him the amulet and staying the night with him.

So even if he believed her in that moment, I don't think it lasted for very long and it degraded the longer he was away from her in AtS Season 5.

Well, you know my feelings on AtS S5. ;)

I think I have a far more optimistic interpretation of Spike's part than you do. That suits me well. :)

[angearia]

Hee! If I'd never seen AtS Season 5, I'd agree with you completely, I'm sure. I'd just realized I'd expressed my thoughts about Spike's insecurities in my fic Sad Song in His Heart (if you feel like reading!) which picks up when Spike makes the decision to not go after Buffy once he's corporeal. And it deals with how I view his insecurities. It's fun, I think; has a wicked OC playing with Spike's mind and the story includes the Decoy and the Buffybot, too. :P

But the first chapter really exemplifies how I see Spike.

[gabrielleabelle]

I think Angel's evil influence made Spike act all wonky in AtS S5 (Cause of that sire-childe bond fics go on about, you know?).

In any case, Buffy's gonna have to give Spike a firm spanking for the whole not calling her thing.

[gabrielleabelle]

Oh! I have more thoughts! I always have additional thoughts after commenting. My brain works slowly sometimes.

I was actually reading one of those post-Showtime hurt/comfort fics and it dawned on me why I find the whole "Spike didn't believe Buffy" thing so incongruous to the rest of the season. Because the big "thing" with Spike being taken by the First was that he withstood its torture because of his belief in her belief in him. That conviction saved Spike, even when it failed Angel way back in Amends.

I suppose he could believe in her belief in him but be skeptical of any romantic talk, but that seems so at odds with pretty much everything else in the season where Spike unreservedly believes Buffy.

For AtS S5, I do think, like you say, the physical presence of Buffy is important to Spike's conviction. Being removed from her, being incorporeal, and then being subject to Angel's nonsense casts enough self-doubt that he starts to act all stupid about contacting her again. But that doesn't affect Chosen where, to me, he absolutely

[deird1]

Ooh. I agree with you.

(At least, I do today. I'll probably change my mind tomorrow.)

I definitely think Spike believes her. There's just... other stuff going on.

[penny_lane_42]

*gasp* I agree!

[gabrielleabelle]

*falls over in shock*