Meta: Yukimura
Yukimura analysis/discussion, part one. Part two will be posted soon!
aiwritingfic phoenix - how are we re: yukimura?
aiwritingfic have we ever discussed him like we do tezuka?
aiwritingfic ... have we ever done actual discussions of them?
thephoenixboy not to the same extent
thephoenixboy are we starting with his tennis or his personality?
thephoenixboy or both?
aiwritingfic tennis defines all, so let's go with that
thephoenixboy ok
thephoenixboy I see him as an offense-based player, relative to tezuka's defense-based
aiwritingfic *giggles* seme vs uke
thephoenixboy *laughs*
aiwritingfic you knew that was coming
thephoenixboy I did
thephoenixboy which is convenient since I tend to pair them
aiwritingfic <3 preaching to the choir.
thephoenixboy though I wouldn't have said it that way ^_^
thephoenixboy Tezuka likes to take time to set things up and wait for a chance, Yukimura likes to finish points quickly
aiwritingfic tezuka does indeed do a my-pace sort of thing. i think you're right--yukimura certainly seems much more similar to atobe than to tezuka.
thephoenixboy except I don't think yukimura would ever choose to drag a game out deliberately
thephoenixboy I think he tends to go all-out against anyone, no going easy on weaker players (at least in competition)
aiwritingfic this is quite true--if yukimura thought he could win it easily, he would.
thephoenixboy I don't think yukimura ever doubts that he could win it, at least prior to his illness
aiwritingfic note the "easily" bit
thephoenixboy yes
thephoenixboy whereas tezuka I think is always aware that he could lose, and he feels the pressure more
thephoenixboy or maybe that's because we see him after his injury *considers*
thephoenixboy *heads back to 353*
aiwritingfic *laugh*
no, i think tezuka definitely does the pressuring-self thing too much.
thephoenixboy and I should be worried that I know that chapter number off by heart
[23:27] macey_muse idk, tezuka strikes me as - humble, in a way
aiwritingfic aoi makes a game of it
aiwritingfic tezuka builds himself around it.
thephoenixboy yes
aiwritingfic ...
thephoenixboy he uses the pressure to give him the drive
aiwritingfic you can tell i know tezuka SO MUCH BETTER than i do yukimura.
thephoenixboy XD
thephoenixboy I think I've considered them relative to each other, more than as individuals
thephoenixboy probably because I write them together
thephoenixboy ah (Link: http://www.onemanga.com/Prince_of_Tennis/353/04/)http://www.onemanga.com/Prince_of_Tennis/353/04/
thephoenixboy and the next page
thephoenixboy ok
thephoenixboy problem with 353 is that it's sanada's pov - and tezuka's in muga before we get to see him
aiwritingfic we don't ever see tezuka pov.
aiwritingfic except in senbatsu
thephoenixboy true
thephoenixboy but (Link: http://www.onemanga.com/Prince_of_Tennis/353/04/)http://www.onemanga.com/Prince_of_Tennis/353/04/ isn't too helpful because tezuka's just doing his 'lost in the game' thing
aiwritingfic mm. it's not going to tell you anything about tezuka.
aiwritingfic tezuka requires analysis of the ENTIRE pot canon
thephoenixboy (Link: http://www.onemanga.com/Prince_of_Tennis/353/05/)http://www.onemanga.com/Prince_of_Tennis/353/05/ on the other hand, shows a very self-confident yukimura, to me
thephoenixboy *points at yukimura picture*
thephoenixboy thoughts?
macey_muse but his eyes will never not scare me
aiwritingfic they're kids. _tezuka_ approached sanada for a match.
aiwritingfic ... wait.
aiwritingfic *feeds sanatez bunny*
macey_muse XD
aiwritingfic okay. anyway.
thephoenixboy this is immediately after yukimura's beaten sanada in a tournament
aiwritingfic like i said, they were kids. and tezuka approached them for a match. .... oh god now i'm getting sanatezuyuki vibes in cag.
thephoenixboy they're 11 or 12
thephoenixboy it doesn't specifically say whether it was Sanada or tezuka who challenged
thephoenixboy Tezuka could just have been standing quietly looking unimpressed (as he does) and Sanada took offense (as he does)
aiwritingfic *laughing*
aiwritingfic thank you.
aiwritingfic i like that idea
aiwritingfic i'll have to reread
aiwritingfic anyway!
thephoenixboy I've written this scene, so I'm pretty familiar with the canon ^_^
aiwritingfic i had something to say, but it disappeared.
aiwritingfic *scrolls up*
aiwritingfic yukimura's tennis and tezuka's tennis seem to be all analyzed out
aiwritingfic i wonder why they play.
aiwritingfic sheer love of the game?
thephoenixboy I was about to ask that
aiwritingfic i think in tezuka's case, it's something he likes, and he doesn't seem like the "try TONS of activities" sort.
aiwritingfic he'll stick with something he likes until someone pushes him into something else.
thephoenixboy yes, and then yamato gives him the pillar talk
aiwritingfic bet that's why he also fishes and climbs mountains.
thephoenixboy and he's responsible
thephoenixboy so he takes on the challenge for yamato's sake
aiwritingfic and i bet he did carpentry in shop, liked it, and quietly does it at home when people need furniture.
aiwritingfic not for yamato's sake
aiwritingfic i think it's more a catholic guilt thing
aiwritingfic without being explicitly catholic
thephoenixboy maybe I phrased that wrong
aiwritingfic one of those "with great power comes great responsibility" things
aiwritingfic very peter parker
thephoenixboy yes
thephoenixboy and also because he was asked
thephoenixboy I think tezuka likes to feel needed
aiwritingfic yes, he does
aiwritingfic he needs to feel needed/wanted
thephoenixboy that too ^_^
aiwritingfic if the world were to send him to coventry i think he'd die
thephoenixboy yes
aiwritingfic but he doesn't want to be seen as an attention whore
aiwritingfic so he does the "respectable" thing
thephoenixboy no, it's very quiet attention seeking
aiwritingfic he makes himself indispensable.
thephoenixboy yes
aiwritingfic the matyr complex ties into that
thephoenixboy yes
aiwritingfic "it's okay, don't worry about me, i'm only going to sacrifice myself for the greater good."
thephoenixboy *laughs*
thephoenixboy but he does it very deliberately
aiwritingfic yukimura actually is a lot more honest about his motivations.
aiwritingfic tezuka is less so.
aiwritingfic he tells himself he's being noble.
aiwritingfic but he's really just an attention whore.
[23:41] thephoenixboy mm
[23:41] thephoenixboy I think it's partly for himself
aiwritingfic i think it's _mostly_ for himself, in a way. because that's what fulfills him.
aiwritingfic *ponders* what fulfills yukimura? his team.
thephoenixboy he has his personal goals as well, and I think not backing down is one of his life rules
thephoenixboy yukimura wants to be the best
aiwritingfic it certainly matters more to yuki than to tez
thephoenixboy I think up until 353, he hasn't found anyone anywhere near his age who could match him.
aiwritingfic i wonder if he feels the need to tempt/bait people just to see if he could find a rival.
thephoenixboy even Sanada gets blown away by him, and I think it's a good bet that Sanada is officially the next strongest in their age group
aiwritingfic atobe, tezuka... yukimura tempts them and taunts them, trying to get them to play on his level
aiwritingfic no, i will disagree with you
aiwritingfic tezuka and yukimura have never played against each other.
thephoenixboy 353
thephoenixboy not an official match, but they have played
aiwritingfic honestly? i said a lot when i was talking to moonsliver
aiwritingfic and i've refined my opinion since then.
thephoenixboy they don't say who won, just that sanada thought it was even
thephoenixboy that discussion a while back? *goes looking*
aiwritingfic i think that there isn't _a_ number one.
aiwritingfic there is a pool.
aiwritingfic like in hikago?
thephoenixboy yes
aiwritingfic there are people who are near the top, and who occasionally trade places.
aiwritingfic in that pool, tezuka and yukimura belong.
thephoenixboy but I think that in the tournament scene when they are 11 or 12, Yukimura is number one by quite a wide margin and then the pool is below him
aiwritingfic atobe and sanada occcasionally squeeze in.
thephoenixboy whereas I don't think tezuka plays tournaments then
aiwritingfic you do realize tezuka was not in the tournament scene.
aiwritingfic yes, that. *laugh*
thephoenixboy and atobe was in england
thephoenixboy so the pool only really gathers in middle school
thephoenixboy before then, Yukimura is clear at the top
thephoenixboy and then he plays Tezuka and is evenly matched and it shocks him
aiwritingfic yes. though by middle school, sanada's managed to keep up and narrow the margin between him and tezuka (at least) through hard work
aiwritingfic tezuka and yukimura = natural talent
thephoenixboy yes
thephoenixboy and sanada, atobe=hard work
thephoenixboy and atobe is back then as well
aiwritingfic tezuka chose to focus his talent on control
aiwritingfic i think that in terms of ball control
aiwritingfic _no one_ in the entire circuit can match tezuka.
thephoenixboy no
aiwritingfic precision/pinpoint stuff i mean.
aiwritingfic and getting exactly what he wants from the ball through spin etc.
aiwritingfic no?
thephoenixboy no one can match him
thephoenixboy I was agreeing ^_^
aiwritingfic *hearts*
thephoenixboy whereas yukimura is more all-round good
aiwritingfic yukimura, however, probably edges out in the "overall game"
aiwritingfic ... GMTA <3
thephoenixboy XD
aiwritingfic sanada wins the brute strength contest
aiwritingfic he's got the muscle/body for it
aiwritingfic and he definitely made sure he capitalized on that advantage
thephoenixboy and atobe the analysis?
thephoenixboy he reads a game really well
aiwritingfic atobe has the cunning.
thephoenixboy yes
aiwritingfic he's probably the smartest of the bunch.
thephoenixboy mm
thephoenixboy yukimura, I think plays on instinct in terms of tactics
aiwritingfic the others aren't stupid, but atobe truly is gifted when it comes to brains.
thephoenixboy tezuka I think also to some extent
aiwritingfic they're naturals, born to it, but they couldn't teach that sense.
aiwritingfic atobe _could_ teach it.
thephoenixboy yes
aiwritingfic if he so chose.
thephoenixboy true
thephoenixboy and sanada plays from his experience
aiwritingfic sanada has no tennis sense to speak of (when you compare him to tezuka and yukimura)
thephoenixboy he knows what is likely to work because he's got the match experience behind him
aiwritingfic he's clumsy and ungainly. but you're right, he makes up for that with sheer hard work.
thephoenixboy he says something like that in the kantou final against echizen
aiwritingfic *nods* yes.
aiwritingfic sanada is the battle-scarred general
thephoenixboy XD
thephoenixboy I wonder if yukimura's scared of losing. I've touched on it as an idea before, but never really considered it
aiwritingfic didn't we see that in the manga?
aiwritingfic somewhere in the final yuki/echizen battle, sanada thinks back
thephoenixboy *goes looking*
thephoenixboy 7 chapters - might take me a bit to track it down
thephoenixboy I love Echizen's 'the jacket fell off' line
thephoenixboy yukimura wears his jacket like yamato
thephoenixboy and echizen makes it fall off in the first point of their match
thephoenixboy and he's quite smug about it
macey_muse XD
aiwritingfic *laugh*
thephoenixboy and yukimura tells him that the game isn't about whose jacket falls off first
aiwritingfic echizen basically gets all t he fun lines.
thephoenixboy yes
thephoenixboy I do like the beginning of that match
thephoenixboy the beginning, mind you
aiwritingfic ^_^
aiwritingfic i hate to be a wet blanket
aiwritingfic but bedtime.
aiwritingfic work tomorrow morning
thephoenixboy ok
aiwritingfic phoenix - how are we re: yukimura?
aiwritingfic have we ever discussed him like we do tezuka?
aiwritingfic ... have we ever done actual discussions of them?
thephoenixboy not to the same extent
thephoenixboy are we starting with his tennis or his personality?
thephoenixboy or both?
aiwritingfic tennis defines all, so let's go with that
thephoenixboy ok
thephoenixboy I see him as an offense-based player, relative to tezuka's defense-based
aiwritingfic *giggles* seme vs uke
thephoenixboy *laughs*
aiwritingfic you knew that was coming
thephoenixboy I did
thephoenixboy which is convenient since I tend to pair them
aiwritingfic <3 preaching to the choir.
thephoenixboy though I wouldn't have said it that way ^_^
thephoenixboy Tezuka likes to take time to set things up and wait for a chance, Yukimura likes to finish points quickly
aiwritingfic tezuka does indeed do a my-pace sort of thing. i think you're right--yukimura certainly seems much more similar to atobe than to tezuka.
thephoenixboy except I don't think yukimura would ever choose to drag a game out deliberately
thephoenixboy I think he tends to go all-out against anyone, no going easy on weaker players (at least in competition)
aiwritingfic this is quite true--if yukimura thought he could win it easily, he would.
thephoenixboy I don't think yukimura ever doubts that he could win it, at least prior to his illness
aiwritingfic note the "easily" bit
thephoenixboy yes
thephoenixboy whereas tezuka I think is always aware that he could lose, and he feels the pressure more
thephoenixboy or maybe that's because we see him after his injury *considers*
thephoenixboy *heads back to 353*
aiwritingfic *laugh*
no, i think tezuka definitely does the pressuring-self thing too much.
thephoenixboy and I should be worried that I know that chapter number off by heart
[23:27] macey_muse idk, tezuka strikes me as - humble, in a way
aiwritingfic aoi makes a game of it
aiwritingfic tezuka builds himself around it.
thephoenixboy yes
aiwritingfic ...
thephoenixboy he uses the pressure to give him the drive
aiwritingfic you can tell i know tezuka SO MUCH BETTER than i do yukimura.
thephoenixboy XD
thephoenixboy I think I've considered them relative to each other, more than as individuals
thephoenixboy probably because I write them together
thephoenixboy ah (Link: http://www.onemanga.com/Prince_of_Tennis/353/04/)http://www.onemanga.com/Prince_of_Tennis/353/04/
thephoenixboy and the next page
thephoenixboy ok
thephoenixboy problem with 353 is that it's sanada's pov - and tezuka's in muga before we get to see him
aiwritingfic we don't ever see tezuka pov.
aiwritingfic except in senbatsu
thephoenixboy true
thephoenixboy but (Link: http://www.onemanga.com/Prince_of_Tennis/353/04/)http://www.onemanga.com/Prince_of_Tennis/353/04/ isn't too helpful because tezuka's just doing his 'lost in the game' thing
aiwritingfic mm. it's not going to tell you anything about tezuka.
aiwritingfic tezuka requires analysis of the ENTIRE pot canon
thephoenixboy (Link: http://www.onemanga.com/Prince_of_Tennis/353/05/)http://www.onemanga.com/Prince_of_Tennis/353/05/ on the other hand, shows a very self-confident yukimura, to me
thephoenixboy *points at yukimura picture*
thephoenixboy thoughts?
macey_muse but his eyes will never not scare me
aiwritingfic they're kids. _tezuka_ approached sanada for a match.
aiwritingfic ... wait.
aiwritingfic *feeds sanatez bunny*
macey_muse XD
aiwritingfic okay. anyway.
thephoenixboy this is immediately after yukimura's beaten sanada in a tournament
aiwritingfic like i said, they were kids. and tezuka approached them for a match. .... oh god now i'm getting sanatezuyuki vibes in cag.
thephoenixboy they're 11 or 12
thephoenixboy it doesn't specifically say whether it was Sanada or tezuka who challenged
thephoenixboy Tezuka could just have been standing quietly looking unimpressed (as he does) and Sanada took offense (as he does)
aiwritingfic *laughing*
aiwritingfic thank you.
aiwritingfic i like that idea
aiwritingfic i'll have to reread
aiwritingfic anyway!
thephoenixboy I've written this scene, so I'm pretty familiar with the canon ^_^
aiwritingfic i had something to say, but it disappeared.
aiwritingfic *scrolls up*
aiwritingfic yukimura's tennis and tezuka's tennis seem to be all analyzed out
aiwritingfic i wonder why they play.
aiwritingfic sheer love of the game?
thephoenixboy I was about to ask that
aiwritingfic i think in tezuka's case, it's something he likes, and he doesn't seem like the "try TONS of activities" sort.
aiwritingfic he'll stick with something he likes until someone pushes him into something else.
thephoenixboy yes, and then yamato gives him the pillar talk
aiwritingfic bet that's why he also fishes and climbs mountains.
thephoenixboy and he's responsible
thephoenixboy so he takes on the challenge for yamato's sake
aiwritingfic and i bet he did carpentry in shop, liked it, and quietly does it at home when people need furniture.
aiwritingfic not for yamato's sake
aiwritingfic i think it's more a catholic guilt thing
aiwritingfic without being explicitly catholic
thephoenixboy maybe I phrased that wrong
aiwritingfic one of those "with great power comes great responsibility" things
aiwritingfic very peter parker
thephoenixboy yes
thephoenixboy and also because he was asked
thephoenixboy I think tezuka likes to feel needed
aiwritingfic yes, he does
aiwritingfic he needs to feel needed/wanted
thephoenixboy that too ^_^
aiwritingfic if the world were to send him to coventry i think he'd die
thephoenixboy yes
aiwritingfic but he doesn't want to be seen as an attention whore
aiwritingfic so he does the "respectable" thing
thephoenixboy no, it's very quiet attention seeking
aiwritingfic he makes himself indispensable.
thephoenixboy yes
aiwritingfic the matyr complex ties into that
thephoenixboy yes
aiwritingfic "it's okay, don't worry about me, i'm only going to sacrifice myself for the greater good."
thephoenixboy *laughs*
thephoenixboy but he does it very deliberately
aiwritingfic yukimura actually is a lot more honest about his motivations.
aiwritingfic tezuka is less so.
aiwritingfic he tells himself he's being noble.
aiwritingfic but he's really just an attention whore.
[23:41] thephoenixboy mm
[23:41] thephoenixboy I think it's partly for himself
aiwritingfic i think it's _mostly_ for himself, in a way. because that's what fulfills him.
aiwritingfic *ponders* what fulfills yukimura? his team.
thephoenixboy he has his personal goals as well, and I think not backing down is one of his life rules
thephoenixboy yukimura wants to be the best
aiwritingfic it certainly matters more to yuki than to tez
thephoenixboy I think up until 353, he hasn't found anyone anywhere near his age who could match him.
aiwritingfic i wonder if he feels the need to tempt/bait people just to see if he could find a rival.
thephoenixboy even Sanada gets blown away by him, and I think it's a good bet that Sanada is officially the next strongest in their age group
aiwritingfic atobe, tezuka... yukimura tempts them and taunts them, trying to get them to play on his level
aiwritingfic no, i will disagree with you
aiwritingfic tezuka and yukimura have never played against each other.
thephoenixboy 353
thephoenixboy not an official match, but they have played
aiwritingfic honestly? i said a lot when i was talking to moonsliver
aiwritingfic and i've refined my opinion since then.
thephoenixboy they don't say who won, just that sanada thought it was even
thephoenixboy that discussion a while back? *goes looking*
aiwritingfic i think that there isn't _a_ number one.
aiwritingfic there is a pool.
aiwritingfic like in hikago?
thephoenixboy yes
aiwritingfic there are people who are near the top, and who occasionally trade places.
aiwritingfic in that pool, tezuka and yukimura belong.
thephoenixboy but I think that in the tournament scene when they are 11 or 12, Yukimura is number one by quite a wide margin and then the pool is below him
aiwritingfic atobe and sanada occcasionally squeeze in.
thephoenixboy whereas I don't think tezuka plays tournaments then
aiwritingfic you do realize tezuka was not in the tournament scene.
aiwritingfic yes, that. *laugh*
thephoenixboy and atobe was in england
thephoenixboy so the pool only really gathers in middle school
thephoenixboy before then, Yukimura is clear at the top
thephoenixboy and then he plays Tezuka and is evenly matched and it shocks him
aiwritingfic yes. though by middle school, sanada's managed to keep up and narrow the margin between him and tezuka (at least) through hard work
aiwritingfic tezuka and yukimura = natural talent
thephoenixboy yes
thephoenixboy and sanada, atobe=hard work
thephoenixboy and atobe is back then as well
aiwritingfic tezuka chose to focus his talent on control
aiwritingfic i think that in terms of ball control
aiwritingfic _no one_ in the entire circuit can match tezuka.
thephoenixboy no
aiwritingfic precision/pinpoint stuff i mean.
aiwritingfic and getting exactly what he wants from the ball through spin etc.
aiwritingfic no?
thephoenixboy no one can match him
thephoenixboy I was agreeing ^_^
aiwritingfic *hearts*
thephoenixboy whereas yukimura is more all-round good
aiwritingfic yukimura, however, probably edges out in the "overall game"
aiwritingfic ... GMTA <3
thephoenixboy XD
aiwritingfic sanada wins the brute strength contest
aiwritingfic he's got the muscle/body for it
aiwritingfic and he definitely made sure he capitalized on that advantage
thephoenixboy and atobe the analysis?
thephoenixboy he reads a game really well
aiwritingfic atobe has the cunning.
thephoenixboy yes
aiwritingfic he's probably the smartest of the bunch.
thephoenixboy mm
thephoenixboy yukimura, I think plays on instinct in terms of tactics
aiwritingfic the others aren't stupid, but atobe truly is gifted when it comes to brains.
thephoenixboy tezuka I think also to some extent
aiwritingfic they're naturals, born to it, but they couldn't teach that sense.
aiwritingfic atobe _could_ teach it.
thephoenixboy yes
aiwritingfic if he so chose.
thephoenixboy true
thephoenixboy and sanada plays from his experience
aiwritingfic sanada has no tennis sense to speak of (when you compare him to tezuka and yukimura)
thephoenixboy he knows what is likely to work because he's got the match experience behind him
aiwritingfic he's clumsy and ungainly. but you're right, he makes up for that with sheer hard work.
thephoenixboy he says something like that in the kantou final against echizen
aiwritingfic *nods* yes.
aiwritingfic sanada is the battle-scarred general
thephoenixboy XD
thephoenixboy I wonder if yukimura's scared of losing. I've touched on it as an idea before, but never really considered it
aiwritingfic didn't we see that in the manga?
aiwritingfic somewhere in the final yuki/echizen battle, sanada thinks back
thephoenixboy *goes looking*
thephoenixboy 7 chapters - might take me a bit to track it down
thephoenixboy I love Echizen's 'the jacket fell off' line
thephoenixboy yukimura wears his jacket like yamato
thephoenixboy and echizen makes it fall off in the first point of their match
thephoenixboy and he's quite smug about it
macey_muse XD
aiwritingfic *laugh*
thephoenixboy and yukimura tells him that the game isn't about whose jacket falls off first
aiwritingfic echizen basically gets all t he fun lines.
thephoenixboy yes
thephoenixboy I do like the beginning of that match
thephoenixboy the beginning, mind you
aiwritingfic ^_^
aiwritingfic i hate to be a wet blanket
aiwritingfic but bedtime.
aiwritingfic work tomorrow morning
thephoenixboy ok