intrinsic gender differences in young male/female chimps

[writerspleasure]

Female chimpanzees treat sticks and small logs as dolls by cuddling them, creating games and even putting them to bed, new research finds. - Since young male chimps were less inclined to play dollies, the authors say their study presents the first evidence of an animal species in the wild in which play differs between males and females. - "Our data

Comments

[tatjna]

It should be pointed out that this behaviour has only ever been observed in one group of chimpanzees (implying an element of social learning), and that by puberty the incidences for males and females have levelled out at practically zero for both.

http://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(10)01449-1

[writerspleasure]

the child behavior dovetails with other populations, however. including humans. the weight of evidence is entirely on intrinsic gender differences.

[tatjna]

Actually, in terms of observations of chimp stick use, there is no dovetailing with other populations - that's the only one that does it. And for other uses of sticks (ie aggression, as a tool), while the study observed that male chimps were more likely to hit each other and female ones were better at getting honey and termites, it also pointed out that these are behaviours learned from adult chimps.

Given that in humans it is virtually impossible to distinguish inherent behaviour from learned behaviour, even in the very young, we can not assume that any gender difference in play by young humans is biological.

Forgive me for not seeing monkeys playing with cooking pots as a sign of anything relevant.

All that I think can be assumed from this study is that one isolated group of chimpanzees displays a behaviour that may or may not be evidence of either biological gender differences or a unique form of peer social learning. And possibly that it needs more research (and therefore more funding!) because it's interesting.

[surprisesex]

Wrangham explained prior research determined that when young vervet monkeys were presented with toy cars, balls, cooking pots and dolls, the females mostly went for the pots and dolls while the males gravitated toward the cars and balls.

Even girl chimps know they belong in the kitchen.

[writerspleasure]

nope. but there are general tendencies across populations. (the greater sensitivity of female sense organs alone would indicate that they'd find average male cooking unsophisticated.)

[pocketfullofsin]

Averages don't mean shit for individuals. Why must you continually harp on this.

[writerspleasure]

i'd love to see you defend your snarl - averages mean nothing for individuals? really? so we can safely throw out all of statistics?

luddite.

[my_wits_end]

the authors say their study presents the first evidence of an animal species in the wild in which play differs between males and females.

Bullshit. It's been known for a looong time that there are differences in play between males and females, in chimps and in other mammals. But you are just trolling anyway so there's no sense in discussing reality with you.

[writerspleasure]

not trolling. presenting yet another in a very long line of evidence for intrinsic gender differences. for which i took a great deal of fire from many now-strangely-silent feminists (who otherwise endorse western science when it comes to such things as global warming).

[my_wits_end]

Okay, but I'd be skeptical of scientists who claim that this is the first evidence of such, since it's not.

Also, I think it's dangerous to conclude too much from this about intrinsic gender differences in humans. A little boy who wants to play with dolls - a desire perhaps deriving from a 'biological basis,' while it may be true that he is a deviation from the norm - will in many cases very quickly have this inclination socialized out of him by his parents and other children.

[pocketfullofsin]

Yeowp.

[dialogic]

Let's grant the strongest form of your thesis: these differences do exist, they exist not only in the studied group but across the species, and the difference has a biological rather than social origin. Now what?

[pocketfullofsin]

Exactly.

[writerspleasure]

exactly.

[pocketfullofsin]

You seriously linked me to a comment directly below this one?