Letter from the UK Board for the UK Camarilla Affiliate.. Which ceases to exist on the 1st.
Well, there goes the UK.
Dear all,
It is with some sadness that I have to announce to you that CCP North
America (CCPNA), formally White Wolf, have decided to terminate their
relationship with Camarilla UK.
The statement below sets out:
* How this happened,
* What the impact will be on you as a player outside Camarilla UK.
How did this happen?
As you may know Camarilla UK have a contract with CCPNA that in
principle consists of us agreeing to provide them with some money and
to cooperate with their other clubs and them permitting us to use
their intellectual property (IP, trademarks, copyrights and such like)
for advertising purposes and call our selves their “Official Fan
Club”. This agreement expired in November 2008.
CCPNA chose not to renew the agreement as it stood and wished to
negotiate a new agreement, we were willing to negotiate a new
agreement as we wanted to continue our relationship with CCPNA and the
old agreement was far from satisfactory.
The contract that CCPNA put forward contained numerous alterations
from the old contract and there were in principle two major problems
with what they proposed.
1. A legally binding contract: What they proposed was a legally
binding contract with no break clauses allowing for the termination of
the contract.
2. Control of Camarilla UK: What they proposed contained a clause
that handed final say and control of all games that are part of the
global continuity (Requiem, Forsaken, Lost and Awakening) to Kelly
Barns, their Marketing Director and Club Director of Camarilla US and
GIR (both CCPNA owned clubs).
The problems with this proposal are as follows:
1. A legally binding contract: Should we break our commitments in
their proposed contract then CCPNA could take us to court and enforce
the agreement. This seems very reasonable but we are not a large
organisation with significant financial resources and thus if CCPNA
were to fail to keep to their commitments in the agreement we would
not be able to afford to take them to court and thus would have no
recourse. In addition we would not be able to terminate the agreement
should they fail to keep to it and would still be obliged to keep to
our commitments. This is inherently inequitable. This, in
conjunction with CCPNA failing on a number of occasions in the last
two years to keep to their commitments in the old agreement, left us
in no doubt that what was proposed would be an entirely one sided
arrangement.
2. Control of Camarilla UK: There are two problems with this aspect
of CCPNA’s proposal.
a. Legal power of the Board: The Board are empowered by our
Membership to govern our Society and they are not empowered to hand
their powers irrevocably or without the power to overrule to any third
party and it would be illegal for them to do so. (This is the advice
of one of the UK's top experts on the governance and law of
unincorporated associations.
) Our Board cannot deliver what CCPNA are
demanding in this regard and it would require a vote of the Members at
a general meeting to rewrite our constitution.
b. The interests of the Members: Handing control of Camarilla UK to
CCPNA would be totally against the interests of the owners of our
society, our Members. The purpose of CCPNA as a company is to make as
much money as possible for its shareholders. They do this by selling
as many books as possible. Camarilla UK’s objective is to run and
promote games for its Members. These two things are not totally
incompatible but there are some significant differences and conflicts.
These were best illustrated when CCPNA discontinued the old World of
Darkness games such as Vampire: The Masquerade. This resulted in
lots of new book sales for CCPNA (then White Wolf) however Camarilla
UK lost approximately two thirds of its Members. Giving CCPNA control
of our operations would allow them to operate our club to maximise
book sales rather than for the benefit of our Members.
We put points 1 and 2a to CCPNA and asked for their views. They
responded by informing us that they were terminating negotiations and
ceasing all cooperation with Camarilla UK as of 1st March.
What impact does this have on you?
Camarilla UK Members will no longer be entitled to attend Camarilla US
or GIR games, nor attend the International Camarilla Conclave (ICC).
Camarilla US and GIR Members will still be welcome at Camarilla UK
games. Members of other clubs that CCPNA does not own will continue
to remain welcome at our games and we will continue to work closely
with your organisations.
We are, needless to say, deeply disappointed and saddened at CCP North
America’s decision to terminate our long standing and mutually
beneficial relations with them. However we intend to go forward,
grow, continue to improve our games and organisation for the benefit
of our Members and cooperate to the greatest extent possible with the
other World of Darkness fan clubs across the world.
Yours sincerely,
Richard Hussey,
Chairman, Camarilla UK
On behalf of the Camarilla UK Board:
Andy Connell
Fran Dale
Richard Hussey
Aine MacLennan
Gregg Workman
Dear all,
It is with some sadness that I have to announce to you that CCP North
America (CCPNA), formally White Wolf, have decided to terminate their
relationship with Camarilla UK.
The statement below sets out:
* How this happened,
* What the impact will be on you as a player outside Camarilla UK.
How did this happen?
As you may know Camarilla UK have a contract with CCPNA that in
principle consists of us agreeing to provide them with some money and
to cooperate with their other clubs and them permitting us to use
their intellectual property (IP, trademarks, copyrights and such like)
for advertising purposes and call our selves their “Official Fan
Club”. This agreement expired in November 2008.
CCPNA chose not to renew the agreement as it stood and wished to
negotiate a new agreement, we were willing to negotiate a new
agreement as we wanted to continue our relationship with CCPNA and the
old agreement was far from satisfactory.
The contract that CCPNA put forward contained numerous alterations
from the old contract and there were in principle two major problems
with what they proposed.
1. A legally binding contract: What they proposed was a legally
binding contract with no break clauses allowing for the termination of
the contract.
2. Control of Camarilla UK: What they proposed contained a clause
that handed final say and control of all games that are part of the
global continuity (Requiem, Forsaken, Lost and Awakening) to Kelly
Barns, their Marketing Director and Club Director of Camarilla US and
GIR (both CCPNA owned clubs).
The problems with this proposal are as follows:
1. A legally binding contract: Should we break our commitments in
their proposed contract then CCPNA could take us to court and enforce
the agreement. This seems very reasonable but we are not a large
organisation with significant financial resources and thus if CCPNA
were to fail to keep to their commitments in the agreement we would
not be able to afford to take them to court and thus would have no
recourse. In addition we would not be able to terminate the agreement
should they fail to keep to it and would still be obliged to keep to
our commitments. This is inherently inequitable. This, in
conjunction with CCPNA failing on a number of occasions in the last
two years to keep to their commitments in the old agreement, left us
in no doubt that what was proposed would be an entirely one sided
arrangement.
2. Control of Camarilla UK: There are two problems with this aspect
of CCPNA’s proposal.
a. Legal power of the Board: The Board are empowered by our
Membership to govern our Society and they are not empowered to hand
their powers irrevocably or without the power to overrule to any third
party and it would be illegal for them to do so. (This is the advice
of one of the UK's top experts on the governance and law of
unincorporated associations.
) Our Board cannot deliver what CCPNA are
demanding in this regard and it would require a vote of the Members at
a general meeting to rewrite our constitution.
b. The interests of the Members: Handing control of Camarilla UK to
CCPNA would be totally against the interests of the owners of our
society, our Members. The purpose of CCPNA as a company is to make as
much money as possible for its shareholders. They do this by selling
as many books as possible. Camarilla UK’s objective is to run and
promote games for its Members. These two things are not totally
incompatible but there are some significant differences and conflicts.
These were best illustrated when CCPNA discontinued the old World of
Darkness games such as Vampire: The Masquerade. This resulted in
lots of new book sales for CCPNA (then White Wolf) however Camarilla
UK lost approximately two thirds of its Members. Giving CCPNA control
of our operations would allow them to operate our club to maximise
book sales rather than for the benefit of our Members.
We put points 1 and 2a to CCPNA and asked for their views. They
responded by informing us that they were terminating negotiations and
ceasing all cooperation with Camarilla UK as of 1st March.
What impact does this have on you?
Camarilla UK Members will no longer be entitled to attend Camarilla US
or GIR games, nor attend the International Camarilla Conclave (ICC).
Camarilla US and GIR Members will still be welcome at Camarilla UK
games. Members of other clubs that CCPNA does not own will continue
to remain welcome at our games and we will continue to work closely
with your organisations.
We are, needless to say, deeply disappointed and saddened at CCP North
America’s decision to terminate our long standing and mutually
beneficial relations with them. However we intend to go forward,
grow, continue to improve our games and organisation for the benefit
of our Members and cooperate to the greatest extent possible with the
other World of Darkness fan clubs across the world.
Yours sincerely,
Richard Hussey,
Chairman, Camarilla UK
On behalf of the Camarilla UK Board:
Andy Connell
Fran Dale
Richard Hussey
Aine MacLennan
Gregg Workman