Basically, I'm wondering what people's ideas are on failure thresholds. How many times, in essence, does an attempt need to fail for something to be decided to be a lost cause
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Hmm.. I think that it depends on how much I care about said thing. If it's very important to me, I'll probably continue trying until I get a response or until I stop using their service because of it
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::nods:: Oh, I'd definitely consider it to be important.... just that the lack of response is, well, deafening in its own right. And somewhat telling, IMO.
The alternate methods part is what gets me the most. Just once, I'd be able to write it off, but the multiple times/multiple methods thing makes it harder to just brush it under the rug.
I have to agree with allardk when she says "Hmm.. I think that it depends on how much I care about said thing".
Also, as far as with learning a new skill- it depends on how much improvement I'm seeing. If I painted for months and months and saw no improvement whatsoever, I'd give up. If I saw at least gradual improvement, I'd give it longer. I did oil painting for a while, but I eventually peaked at a point where I wasn't content with my abilities, so I gave it up. Ditto with dance, and some other stuff. The sculpting thing I'm still improving at, and I think at this point, even if I didn't see any further improvement, I'd still do it, because it's satisfying enough at the point I'm at.
As for the website thing, or maintaining a relationship, it's strictly a matter of how much that person matters to me, and whether recipricocity is even something that can be reasonably expected from that person.
Of course, it depends too on what the situation is. In your website example, I'd probably just stop giving them my business if they weren't responding. In a business situation, I tend to give each level I contact a two attempts, two business day turn around time- if someone can't get back to me withing four or five busniness days, I take it up to the next level. In a personal situation, I try to find out what's going on. Is the person I'm trying to contact possibly sick and not mentally/physically able to effectively communicate? Are they on vacation? Have I done something to totally piss them off and they need some time/space? *shrug* Just depends. And of course, I'm more persistent when it really matters.
It depends on the situation. If it's a personal situation, I try twice, from two different tactics. If I receive the same answer, I assume it will stay that way unless something in their life changes. If their situation changes or they seem to want to talk about that topic again, I give them a third chance. I do this for each issue that's a problem. Sometimes, people see things how they see things, and I won't waste both our energy trying to convince them otherwise
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> If I receive the same answer, I assume it will stay that way > unless something in their life changes.
I take the same approach. I'm more wondering about when you don't *get* an answer to begin with... trying to decide when "no response" can reasonably be assumed to *be* the response. ::shrugs::
Just trying to gauge if I'm way off in abnormal territory with my evaluations. Danke.
It depends on the person, but I think for someone who's active in checking their e-mail, voicemail, etc. a week is a reasonable "probably not going to answer" time period. Past a month is when I assume no answer is the answer with little self-questioning.
And no problem. Though I admit I tend to live in abnormal territory, so take it with a grain of salt ;)
I do like that approach, and do try to use different methods. But, sometimes, all things being equal, chances just aren't that good. Eventually, you reach a point where, for instance, you just say, "Okay, an equally geared and skilled warlock is just going to eat my feral druid in PvP." Doesn't mean that you're not going to get lucky from time to time, but it does mean I'm not going to seek them out spamming /duel. ::shrugs::
If you allow the possibility of limitations on effort and "giving up", then you are already manifesting defeat before you begin. And defeat's what you'll get in the end, because by accepting a limit you're already subconsciously telling yourself that you won't succeed.
Whatever it is, if you don't get the results you're looking for, the best thing you can do is try another way. If that doesn't work, try another way. And so on and so on, et infinitum ad nauseum.
Because, at the end of the day... if it wasn't important, you wouldn't have made the effort in the first place.. or posted it on LJ, non? :)
But is that "ad nauseum" point ever really reachable? Say, for instance, some kid has a bad parent, for whatever reason, and the parent simply doesn't change, still continues with whatever atrocious thing they do. (Totally hypothetical, btw.) Obviously, family is one of those big things that pretty much trumps all else... but is there a point where the kid, now grown to adulthood, can just write the parent off? Consider them a lost cause, someone they just can't reach? Because "always one more time" can lead to an awful lot of heartache is the other person simply isn't going to budge. Is there a point of diminishing returns, where you can say that, no matter how important the thing, you've put in too much effort and seen absolutely no return?
I understand what you say about giving up before you've began - but what if you're hopeful each time, really throw yourself at something... but still simply can't manage to pull off what you're aiming for? When does fatigue overtake hope?
I don't believe in giving up - because that implies a lack of hope. The absence of hope is where one finds despair. It's a big sin in the eyes of the Catholic church, and one of the only things I agree with them about
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The alternate methods part is what gets me the most. Just once, I'd be able to write it off, but the multiple times/multiple methods thing makes it harder to just brush it under the rug.
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Also, as far as with learning a new skill- it depends on how much improvement I'm seeing. If I painted for months and months and saw no improvement whatsoever, I'd give up. If I saw at least gradual improvement, I'd give it longer. I did oil painting for a while, but I eventually peaked at a point where I wasn't content with my abilities, so I gave it up. Ditto with dance, and some other stuff. The sculpting thing I'm still improving at, and I think at this point, even if I didn't see any further improvement, I'd still do it, because it's satisfying enough at the point I'm at.
As for the website thing, or maintaining a relationship, it's strictly a matter of how much that person matters to me, and whether recipricocity is even something that can be reasonably expected from that person.
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> unless something in their life changes.
I take the same approach. I'm more wondering about when you don't *get* an answer to begin with... trying to decide when "no response" can reasonably be assumed to *be* the response. ::shrugs::
Just trying to gauge if I'm way off in abnormal territory with my evaluations. Danke.
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And no problem. Though I admit I tend to live in abnormal territory, so take it with a grain of salt ;)
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My answer: Always one more time.
If you allow the possibility of limitations on effort and "giving up", then you are already manifesting defeat before you begin. And defeat's what you'll get in the end, because by accepting a limit you're already subconsciously telling yourself that you won't succeed.
Whatever it is, if you don't get the results you're looking for, the best thing you can do is try another way. If that doesn't work, try another way. And so on and so on, et infinitum ad nauseum.
Because, at the end of the day... if it wasn't important, you wouldn't have made the effort in the first place.. or posted it on LJ, non? :)
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But is that "ad nauseum" point ever really reachable? Say, for instance, some kid has a bad parent, for whatever reason, and the parent simply doesn't change, still continues with whatever atrocious thing they do. (Totally hypothetical, btw.) Obviously, family is one of those big things that pretty much trumps all else... but is there a point where the kid, now grown to adulthood, can just write the parent off? Consider them a lost cause, someone they just can't reach? Because "always one more time" can lead to an awful lot of heartache is the other person simply isn't going to budge. Is there a point of diminishing returns, where you can say that, no matter how important the thing, you've put in too much effort and seen absolutely no return?
I understand what you say about giving up before you've began - but what if you're hopeful each time, really throw yourself at something... but still simply can't manage to pull off what you're aiming for? When does fatigue overtake hope?
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