Comments | asavitzk: Sexism at Rocky?

asavitzk

Sexism at Rocky?

Oct 31, 2006 12:31

Jimmy made a post recently http://jrising.livejournal.com/25259.html that others have linked to which is how I found it (since he's not on my friends list - it's too long as it is). It honestly shocked me. Much like the complaint we got about a couple of preshows from an audience member. ( Read more... )

Comments 42

jdub0014 October 31 2006, 19:00:57 UTC

Well said, Alex, and I'm in complete agreement. I view Rocky in a similar light as I view South Park. South Park makes fun of everyone and everything. They don't discriminate when it comes to the jokes they make and the people they target, which makes the show acceptable and enjoyable. Yes, it may offend some people, and that's okay, but it's fair and no one can argue with that ( ... )

oops wrong icon :X myselftheliar October 31 2006, 20:13:50 UTC

I am so offended by your icon. How dare you objectify women by refering only to their boobs. For shame.

suitboyskin October 31 2006, 19:08:51 UTC

Not to invalidate anyone who believes that FBC promotes sexism, they are as entitled to their opinion as anybody, but I find that alot of people have difficulty sitting with the fact that in many, many instances, politically correct/socially acceptable situations/behavior isn't funny. While this doesn't address every element of FBC that was described as sexist I would say that the lion's share of the more socially unacceptable material at Rocky is done for comedic effect ( ... )

Egalitarian Objectification? 5411tech October 31 2006, 20:14:26 UTC

I *don't* think that FBC is very egalitarian in its objectification of people. I think the movie absolutely is, which is why I love it. But the callbacks? Janet's sexual exploration gets her called a slut, while Brad having sex with a transvestite elicits no negative response. And while I'm glad there have been preshows in the past that "objectify" men to the same degree that women are, I have yet to see a sexy-guy trixie. It's not individuals, individual preshows, or anything like that that bothers me. It's the unbalance in expectations overall. This really struck me on Friday seeing all the Halloween preshows with lights, costumes, and final blocking for the first time. In a normal month, with only two preshows, its hard to see the general trend. But that many preshows in a row, it struck me that women were being sexy, stripping, etc. while men a) weren't and b) were allowed to do other things, like be clever and funny. Obviously there are exceptions. I was lucky enough to see a scaled-down version of the "soccer practice ( ... )

Re: Egalitarian Objectification? asavitzk October 31 2006, 20:23:06 UTC

"its just not enough."

How much is enough? And who decides that? Do we have to have a guy's ass onstage each week for the same amount of time as a woman's ass?

See, that's the problem with this sort of argument - it's an argument of opinions and by their very nature, opinions aren't wrong.

So the only way to change things you don't like is to do just that - change things. How many preshows featuring naked men have you proposed? How many preshow meetings have you been at so you could put in your two cents about what kind of eye candy you think should be on stage?

Re: Egalitarian Objectification? truered October 31 2006, 20:44:06 UTC

I don't know who you are, so please don't take this at all personally, I'm sure you're a very nice person. But being that you haven't even been around for long enough for me to know your name I find it very difficult to give any credibility to your argument.

I've been around for 6 years. I've seen 6 years of both women and men gettin' down, dirty, and naked. If it seems imballanced, maybe that's because our girls are hotter and generally more willing to get half clothed than the guys are.

If you're so concerned, why don't you write a preshow with some guys in it instead of expecting someone else to do it?

Thread 6

jrising October 31 2006, 19:33:10 UTC

The problem isn't that we offend people-- I *love* that we offend people. The problem isn't that we encourage women to be outwardly sexual or that we love them for it. And I think we do treat women with respect within the cast.

The problem is that we have an atmosphere of specific sex roles both within the cast and portrayed to the audience. Women are sexy, men are appreciative. Even our female-dominant preshows play to male fantasies. Sex is so much more than that. Sexuality at Rocky should be *radical*. The original movie was.

We need to ask why men are expected to be so much less outwardly sexual than women, and I don't think it's because women are inherently better at it. But as long as men are asked to just take baby-steps, we're going to be stuck in a cliched lop-sided sexuality that will never be as good.

asavitzk October 31 2006, 19:53:15 UTC

I disagree. I don't think women are *expected* to be more outwardly sexual. I think we just have outwardly sexual women at the show right now. We've had outwardly sexual men at the show before and we will again. Like Arthur said - everything old is new again.

Did you ever see the Big and Stupid preshow? Did you see Are You a Boy or a Girl? There are plenty of examples that could swing the argument both ways when the simple fact is, the argument is stupid. Kaloostian said it best when he said that we'll always have the problem but at least it's only 1/100th as bad as other groups like a frat house or landsdown st. club.

dariusdraven October 31 2006, 20:07:25 UTC

Hey! Keep me and my brothers out of this!

asavitzk October 31 2006, 20:23:50 UTC

Oh don't get me wrong. I'm sure *your* frat house is different.

:)

Thread 5

feel the need to contribute. koshnfurter October 31 2006, 21:28:03 UTC

I don't know, I can't speak for what happens at the show now. It's been many years since I left, and my experience may not be remotely relevant anymore.

As far as what is portrayed on stage, I've seen many preshows that display both men and women, other's have mentioned Sit on my Face, Are You a Boy or a Girl? and others, but one of my favorites was always "That's the Way I Like It" lots of partial male nudity in that one. But regardless, what happens on stage is for the audience. It is entertainment. And while no one should feel pressured to participate in something they are not comfortable with, trying to achieve some sort of artificial balance is nothing but harmful to the show. If people want to see more naked men on stage, they should attend the pre-show meetings, let their creative juices flow, and throw their ideas out there. Not just look for others to magically make it happen. I'd be honestly shocked if a pre-show was ever nixed because it involved male nakedness as opposed to female.

Re: feel the need to contribute. mals13 October 31 2006, 21:52:20 UTC

there have been instances in the past where people have complained that we don't do enough preshows that display male sexuality...and you know, it's not because we don't want to. It's that no one has supplied enough ideas that will get the same reaction as something that might involve a woman's sexuality ( ... )

catullus_5 October 31 2006, 22:00:39 UTC

Most Trixies are women because Trixie is a woman. Trixies are variations on a theme from the original stage show.

It's definitely not because of the cast and audience refusing to let male Trixies upset their sexist preconceptions.

mals13 October 31 2006, 22:19:17 UTC

i hope you don't think was suggesting that.

Thread 8

just_al October 31 2006, 22:12:28 UTC

First of all.. if you think the preshows lean heavily towards provocatively attired women it's because that is what people write. Not just the men but the women write them too. Also, our audience seems to like the preshows with sexily dressed women and the cast likes applause so you'll probably see more ( ... )