Two Thoughts

[ashesofautumn]

1. I've come to the conclusion that while I disagree with Sarah Palin's position on abortion in that she is not pro-choice, I don't specifically fault her for being against abortion even in the case of rape (or incest, etc). To me, that's an ideological consistency that's actually kind of refreshing in some way. If you believe that abortion is

Comments

[niav]

I'm pro-choice too but I know what you mean. If you believe abortion is murder, then the circumstances of conception should not influence your opinion; when it does, I also tend to think that the pro-lifer thinks pregnancy and childbirth is some sort of punishment for having sex, you know? That it's not about "murder" at all for them, that they view the fetus the exact same way as I do (i.e: as something that is not yet actually a person and therefore can't be murdered) but they're just bent on making women pay for daring to have sex.

[fpb]

Nonsense. It is Barack Obama who said that he did not want his daughters "punished with a baby" for having sex; that it, it is the pro-choice people who regard babies as a punishment they wish to escape. Anti-abortion people who make exception for rape and murder are sentimental people who are afraid of looking hard and cruel and who associate holding principles as such with cruelty.

[niav]

Nah.

[fpb]

A most thoughtful and profound response. I really do feel I have been put in my place. Who can argue with such intellectual depth?

[venetianglass]

I've read Twilight. Mostly because Rob Pattinson was cast as Edward Cullen - and I love him and might consider stalking him. I read the books, got the obsession for a bit, but since reading the epic fail that was the final book, I've gotten over it. I don't even want to *look* at them now. Or even admit that I once loved them.

[ashesofautumn]

Wait, Cedric is Edward?!

That might make the movie worthwhile, although the primary point of seeing the movie would be to make fun of it. I just can't go when there are crazy fans there because I don't want soda dumped on me :)

[fpb]

And that shows that you have no desire to understand anyone who does not agree with you - only to defeat them, if necessary by humiliating them. The point with pro-lifers who make exceptions for rape and incest (I don't) is exactly the opposite. They are sentimental people who feel that if the condition is sufficiently awful, the crime may be excused; like the people who make excuses for suicides. It is not any impulse to punish that drives them, but a desire to accommodate and a notion that emotion oought to have its place in judgment. They are even rather ashamed of those of us who make no exception; they tend to look on us as ruthless, merciless, harsh. And then, by way of thanks for their attempts at sentiment, they get people like you who use them to try and make them feel even worse, by misrepresenting their motives and their feelings. Congratulations. Moral blackmail, misrepresentation and personal cruelty seem to have made their home in you.

[ashesofautumn]

Frankly I can't stand most pro-life activists. Not to be confused with people who are just pro-life, but the ones who go out of their way to stand outside clinics and whatnot. I went to Planned Parenthood for birth control, and I was harassed by people outside of it wearing these t-shirts and whatnot.

Or the people who call it a holocaust of babies. That just irritates the hell out of me, and is usually the point where I actually engage.

And I point out that it might be the person who cures cancer.... or it might be Stalin II. Poor arguments work in every direction!

[fpb]

And what makes it poor?

[tybalt_quin]

It was awful. Like I want my two hours back awful. Are girls really reading this book and aspiring to have a boy in their life like Edward?

Not just girls. Women. It's depressing.

But it's nice to see that you've joined the rest of us who remain uncommitted to Edward Cullen's sparkle motion. We offer non-sparkly cookies and ice cream.

:nods:

[ashesofautumn]

Hahaha. I read this thing about mothers and daughters reading Twilight together, and I think I threw up a little in my mouth.

Bella is the worst female protagonist I've read in a long time.

[fpb]

You are the third person I respect who says this thing is eye-sporkingly awful. I rather think I will not try it.