My personal theory, is that Loki did intend to try and sieze power from Thor via Thor loosing his father's favor by acting a fool and going after Frost Giants and then his gaining power by saving Odin from the Frost Giant attack.
I don't think he meant though, for Thor to be banished. I don't think he expected his father to go so far in punishment. And that forced him to either be more horrible to Thor than he'd anticiated or give up on the plan to sieze pwoer. And after finding out about his heritage and think he just went full throttle ahead with whatever it took to be king.
Which... makes him a complicated persn who does bad things but not a psychopathic villian. Sorta like Shane in The Walking Dead ^^;;
I like this articulation. I think finding out his heritage really threw him for a loop and I think Thor being banished and Odin taking a nap really forced him to commit further than he would have.
I'm not sure if his plan had a fully realized goal of seizing power though. I think he was shocked when the opportunity presented itself. He was just angry enough to grab it though - and carry out the fratricide he needed to when it looked like it might unravel.
I bet there are AU stories out there that have Loki succeeding and Thor dead and Loki having to live with what he'd done. I bet there are even stories out there in which Loki regrets his impulsiveness. Or maybe he's too egotistical to ever allow himself regrets. In The Avengers he's certainly embraced his mistakes.
And maybe on a second viewing of Thor I'll decide he did have a firm goal of seizing power. I'm not sure I want to see that though. I like my version. : )
Yeah, whatever he is, he's not a psychopath. Psychopaths see other people as objects. Loki cares what people think. He wants to be loved. He just thinks it's impossible to make that happen without forcing or tricking it out of people. Also, he enjoys power and revenge, because he thinks he's entitled to it - he thinks he's been overlooked and persecuted his whole life (whether or not that's true). What looks like motiveless cruelty to everyone else feels like just payback to him. (That's why I think he says "you tossed me into an abyss" to Thor - he really does remember it that way. He's revised all his memories to make himself the wronged party.)
I'm not so sure he really remembers it that way but he might be trying it to see if it sticks. I think it's probably closer to "you might as well have tossed me into an abyss" or "it's because of you I fell in the abyss." He's probably blamed Thor for things before and it's worked. I agree he's revised who is to blame but I don't think he's broken from reality so much that he thinks Thor physically tossed him.
I could see it going either way. It was a traumatic enough event (not to mention what happens to him afterward) that I could see his memory of what happened being dramatically altered. maybe it's something he had to tell himself to get through what followed, and the more he told himself that, the more he believed it. or it could just be an exaggerated version of "it's all your fault one way or another, never mind the details."
p.s. Speaking of "Loki doesn't really want Thor dead," there are a couple of stories (I wish there were more) in which Loki succeeds in killing Thor...and then freaks out. Like, he hadn't really thought through what would happen after. He was just focused on winning, and he hadn't allowed himself to imagine what it would be like when Thor was gone. That's how I always figure it would happen if Loki really did kill Thor in canon. He'd be like "haha! I win! ...oh fuck what have I done..."
You should read that miniseries Etrangere mentioned...it's called "Loki and Thor: Blood Brothers" or something like that. It's by Robert Rodi and Esad Ribic and it's in trade paperback. Really good stuff. It also contains another theory of Loki that I agree with: if he ever actually became king, he wouldn't have the patience for the day-to-day ruling part. He's the god of chaos, maintaining order would bore him.
There's a comics miniseries called Loki out there which basically starts with Loki having won, Thor in chains in his dungeon, wholly in control of Asgard - and he spends all this time waffling about executing Thor because he does not want to even though everyone expects it of him. And that's comics!Loki who is much more of an asshole than movie Thor!Loki. So yeah, no. Loki doesn't want to kill Thor.
I do think Loki will enjoy going through the motions of trying to kill Thor a lot though, as in Avengers. But he doesn't want to, like, kill him dead. He, as they say, lacks conviction.
I've just started reading Thor-Loki stories rather than just Loki/Tony and oh my, the angst. Yesssss. Much more good stories in that pairing (I love Loki/Tony, it's just, there's like 3 or 4 fics for the pairing I love and it feels like all of them cheat too much for my liking).
Ha! One of the things I like so much about Loki is that he always seems to defeat himself. He has more smarts than most bad guys but he never seems to be able/willing to carry his plans through to the end. He knows what he is supposed to do in order to win, but he can't bring himself to do it.
I re-watched Avengers on Friday and couldn't help noticing that in that film, he does the sort of thing that the original, mythical Loki does too: to sow discord. He is above all an agent of chaos. And he always ends up uniting people against him :P. In fact, his nefarious plots tend to bring out the best in other people. He is needed! :D
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I don't think he meant though, for Thor to be banished. I don't think he expected his father to go so far in punishment. And that forced him to either be more horrible to Thor than he'd anticiated or give up on the plan to sieze pwoer. And after finding out about his heritage and think he just went full throttle ahead with whatever it took to be king.
Which... makes him a complicated persn who does bad things but not a psychopathic villian. Sorta like Shane in The Walking Dead ^^;;
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I'm not sure if his plan had a fully realized goal of seizing power though. I think he was shocked when the opportunity presented itself. He was just angry enough to grab it though - and carry out the fratricide he needed to when it looked like it might unravel.
I bet there are AU stories out there that have Loki succeeding and Thor dead and Loki having to live with what he'd done. I bet there are even stories out there in which Loki regrets his impulsiveness. Or maybe he's too egotistical to ever allow himself regrets. In The Avengers he's certainly embraced his mistakes.
And maybe on a second viewing of Thor I'll decide he did have a firm goal of seizing power. I'm not sure I want to see that though. I like my version. : )
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You should read that miniseries Etrangere mentioned...it's called "Loki and Thor: Blood Brothers" or something like that. It's by Robert Rodi and Esad Ribic and it's in trade paperback. Really good stuff. It also contains another theory of Loki that I agree with: if he ever actually became king, he wouldn't have the patience for the day-to-day ruling part. He's the god of chaos, maintaining order would bore him.
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I've just started reading Thor-Loki stories rather than just Loki/Tony and oh my, the angst.
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I've just started reading Thor-Loki stories rather than just Loki/Tony and oh my, the angst.
Yesssss. Much more good stories in that pairing (I love Loki/Tony, it's just, there's like 3 or 4 fics for the pairing I love and it feels like all of them cheat too much for my liking).
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I re-watched Avengers on Friday and couldn't help noticing that in that film, he does the sort of thing that the original, mythical Loki does too: to sow discord. He is above all an agent of chaos. And he always ends up uniting people against him :P. In fact, his nefarious plots tend to bring out the best in other people. He is needed! :D
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