Their lack of clear surfaces is amusing. Like many houses I know. It would feel slightly inappropriate to use the word "realistic" about Egrorian and Pinder, but at least their relationship seems... interestingly multifaceted? I like the hints that Pinder is really only "the nice one" by direct comparison with Egrorian, and that they may actually be fairly well suited to each other...
I like to think Avon is hamming up his pleas for help from Vila especially so Vila WON’T show himself He must be (subconsciously or half-consciously.) If he had really wanted to convince Vila that it was safe to come out he should have tried to keep his usual harsh tone and called him an idiot for thinking he would heed Orac's suggestion. As it is he is actually underlining his own untrustworthiness by not addressing the actual cause of Vila's fear, while clearly demonstrating that he understands that he is hiding from him (and therefore must have heard what Orac said.)
In space, does the ship actually tilt upwards relative to you?Well, gravity is
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In space, does the ship actually tilt upwards relative to you?
Maybe they've decided to be cool and subtle and visually illustrate the somatogravic illusion... High acceleration forward sometimes feels like pitching up if you haven't got a good horizon so your eyes can correct the info your ears are misreporting... Human bodies are rubbish at telling the difference between acceleration in general and actual gravity.
Ermm but more likely the writers just don't get it. ;)
A pitch up isn't needed for Orac to slide off the panel in any case though - acceleration will suffice for that, as anyone who's had their phone fly off the dash when they put their foot down knows! It's actually a slightly nice touch since I can't imagine anything was really tilting when they filmed so someone's given the prop a shove to add to the effect.
You have to admire the actors for managing to keep a straight face in these scenes when there must be all these other people crouched behind the furniture, rattling or pushing it about as needed... *g*
And yet Vila never would Not for the reasons Avon does, no. But in pure self-defense I would have thought him capable of it (at least to try to disarm Avon, if nothing else.) Which makes it even worse that he just curls up and hides instead. It reminds me of his reaction to Tarrant's threats in 'City': the moment he's told that his friends don't care for him, he just seems to give up. I can't help thinking it's the same thing here - that if it had been a stranger, he would have tried to fight back. But the fact that it's his *friend* simply hits straight at his most vulnerable spot, disabling him.
That's a good point actually. It's not as if Vila has never had someone chasing after him with a gun before either and he usually, in spite of a certain amount of flap and panic, manges to come up with something. It seems unlikely he'd have hesitated to at least have a go at coshing some other enemy with the whojamaflip he got sent off to dispose of.
But he runs and hides, instantly. Absolutely instantly to be so far ahead. Avon only dithers for seconds for all his face wringing.
Just popping up to say that, back in the day, when I was a kiddie B7 fan, the bit in Orbit when Avon stalks Vila was way more upsetting for me than the events of "Blake". Thus I pretty much had to force myself to watch the episode when I got the dvds! By comparison, the events in Blake happened so quickly and unexpectedly, that I couldn't really emotionally assimilate them at the time.
Yes, my reactions were almost exactly like that too! Well, except that I've only watched it as an adult.
I wonder if perhaps part of why 'Blake' was less devastating was exactly because of having the trauma of 'Orbit' in fresh memory. If it's something that 'Orbit' seems to make clear, it's that dying isn't really the worst thing that can happen...
I also like the way the parallels between Egrorian and Pinder as one pair and Avon and Vila as another play out.
Avon might tease and insult Vila, not to mention his mocking patting his cheek and clapping him on the back but it's still a world away from Egrorian's tormenting of Pinder. The fact both Vila and Pinder then overhear something that makes them believe they now considered expendable has to be a deliberate parallel. And Avon's is the worse betrayal... Presumably Pinder would have survived albeit alone, the base seems self sufficient.
Their reactions are fascinatingly different too. Vila instantly runs for cover, he's got no doubts even though it's only implied by Orac, whereas Pinder who heard for certain that Egrorian plans to leave him behind, initially ignores it, and only later plans revenge when the opportunity presents itself.
Also interesting that Avon seems really bothered by Egrorian's behaviour too, enough (it seems) to agree more quickly to the deal than he otherwise might have, just to make him stop hurting Pinder. (Also curious that it is Avon and not Vila that intervenes at that point.)
However, I think I have to disagree about which betrayal is worse. Avon's certainly feels worse, but I think that's because we care more about both him and Vila, and their friendship. But while Avon is in an extreme situation where he believes only one of them can survive, Egrorian isn't even in danger (at least no more than anyone is who is dealing with Servalan is, and he is the one pushing his luck there.) He is betraying Pinder for greed and lust only, and whatever Pinder's chances of surviving alone are, he at least seems to think that it's bad enough to be worth dying for, just to get his revenge. And while Egrorian makes his choice easily and with little obvious regret, Avon's self-sabotaging performance makes it clear that he finds it very difficult indeed,
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It's an interesting one certainly. I don't suppose anyone would know for certain their own reaction if it really was a clean cut "me, you, or both
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I was at a talk once by a guy who worked on an international rescue team for natural disasters and suchlike, and something that stuck with me was his claim that altruistic behaviour between adults is very rare in critical situations, regardless of their relationship to each other - the survival instinct is just too strong. Children (and to some extent pets) are a different matter, because even stronger instincts cut in there, but when it comes to adults, saving yourself first, even at the cost of others, is the rule. At least that was apparently his experience. It's not that it *never* happens, but it seems likely that it is significantly less common than popular culture would have us believe... (Though arguably there's a difference between trampling someone to get to a fire exit and determinedly going after someone with a gun, but with people who are as used to weapons and killing as these characters are, perhaps not that much of a difference? Still not sure.)
He sort of comes at it from the opposite direction to most peopleYes...
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It would feel slightly inappropriate to use the word "realistic" about Egrorian and Pinder, but at least their relationship seems... interestingly multifaceted? I like the hints that Pinder is really only "the nice one" by direct comparison with Egrorian, and that they may actually be fairly well suited to each other...
I like to think Avon is hamming up his pleas for help from Vila especially so Vila WON’T show himself
He must be (subconsciously or half-consciously.) If he had really wanted to convince Vila that it was safe to come out he should have tried to keep his usual harsh tone and called him an idiot for thinking he would heed Orac's suggestion. As it is he is actually underlining his own untrustworthiness by not addressing the actual cause of Vila's fear, while clearly demonstrating that he understands that he is hiding from him (and therefore must have heard what Orac said.)
In space, does the ship actually tilt upwards relative to you?Well, gravity is ( ... )
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Maybe they've decided to be cool and subtle and visually illustrate the somatogravic illusion... High acceleration forward sometimes feels like pitching up if you haven't got a good horizon so your eyes can correct the info your ears are misreporting... Human bodies are rubbish at telling the difference between acceleration in general and actual gravity.
Ermm but more likely the writers just don't get it. ;)
A pitch up isn't needed for Orac to slide off the panel in any case though - acceleration will suffice for that, as anyone who's had their phone fly off the dash when they put their foot down knows! It's actually a slightly nice touch since I can't imagine anything was really tilting when they filmed so someone's given the prop a shove to add to the effect.
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Not for the reasons Avon does, no. But in pure self-defense I would have thought him capable of it (at least to try to disarm Avon, if nothing else.) Which makes it even worse that he just curls up and hides instead. It reminds me of his reaction to Tarrant's threats in 'City': the moment he's told that his friends don't care for him, he just seems to give up. I can't help thinking it's the same thing here - that if it had been a stranger, he would have tried to fight back. But the fact that it's his *friend* simply hits straight at his most vulnerable spot, disabling him.
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But he runs and hides, instantly. Absolutely instantly to be so far ahead. Avon only dithers for seconds for all his face wringing.
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I wonder if perhaps part of why 'Blake' was less devastating was exactly because of having the trauma of 'Orbit' in fresh memory. If it's something that 'Orbit' seems to make clear, it's that dying isn't really the worst thing that can happen...
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Avon might tease and insult Vila, not to mention his mocking patting his cheek and clapping him on the back but it's still a world away from Egrorian's tormenting of Pinder. The fact both Vila and Pinder then overhear something that makes them believe they now considered expendable has to be a deliberate parallel. And Avon's is the worse betrayal... Presumably Pinder would have survived albeit alone, the base seems self sufficient.
Their reactions are fascinatingly different too. Vila instantly runs for cover, he's got no doubts even though it's only implied by Orac, whereas Pinder who heard for certain that Egrorian plans to leave him behind, initially ignores it, and only later plans revenge when the opportunity presents itself.
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However, I think I have to disagree about which betrayal is worse. Avon's certainly feels worse, but I think that's because we care more about both him and Vila, and their friendship. But while Avon is in an extreme situation where he believes only one of them can survive, Egrorian isn't even in danger (at least no more than anyone is who is dealing with Servalan is, and he is the one pushing his luck there.) He is betraying Pinder for greed and lust only, and whatever Pinder's chances of surviving alone are, he at least seems to think that it's bad enough to be worth dying for, just to get his revenge. And while Egrorian makes his choice easily and with little obvious regret, Avon's self-sabotaging performance makes it clear that he finds it very difficult indeed, ( ... )
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He sort of comes at it from the opposite direction to most peopleYes... ( ... )
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