Discussion 02 - Where oh where did the flyers go? Or better, where have they been in the first place
Another one of those discussions Skyfire201 and I have over at FF.net.
This time it's about flyers - or the lack thereof XD
Enjoy and tell us what you think about the topic ^^
It all started out with the statement, that the Autobots would have problems accepting new flyers into their ranks and why there were so few flyers on their side in the first place.
Starfire201: When you consider they have Powerglide, Swoop and Cosmos, and later on the Aerialbots, it's not too hard to figure out they realized flyers were necessary.
Balrog Roike: Yeah, but six of these flyers were built near the end of the war, one of the others is next to useless in an atmosphere and Powerglide has the attitude of a Seeker without the abilities to back it up XD
Not really a point for the Bots.
SF201: True what you're saying about that. However, there had to have been more flyers than just the Seekers, given that there were indeed flyer types in the Autobot ranks. Powerglide couldn't have been the only minibot flyer out there, and Skyfire and Cosmos were likely not the only ones of their kind either. So where did the others go? My suspicion is actually a simple one and runs along the premise that most of those flyers were likely wiped out when they refused to join the Decepticons. Yes, I know there are holes in that, but it does make some sense.
BR: But when the Cons started to wipe all other flyers out, why wouldn't the flyers run to the Autobots, and if just to be protected?
I think either the Council started to happily wipe the other flyers out as well, as a precaution should they change their mind after some forceful persuasion of the Cons, or there really were only the Seekers, some triplechangers, a few shuttles and some odd cases of minibot flyers and helicopters. The Seekers were the largest in number and had their own society while the others were just a few odd ones here and there.
SF201: As for the Council, yes it does make a lot of sense (and you just reminded me of another Autobot flyer there). But when you think about it, the causes of the war are different in each universe, really. There are those which are closer than others, though, I'll concede that point. For my part, I have to say we really just don't know for sure. G1 never really went into that too much.
There is something I've wondered: Is the destruction of Vos canon or fanon?
BR: What other Autobot flyer. I only know those you already named and some of the Wreckers.
G1 never went into it because it was an 80's show. There it was okay if everything was black in white. The Cons started the war, so they were the bad ones, a real reason wasn't needed.
Grey areas and background information as well as sympathy for the devils and good intentions turning into violence came much later.
Take a look at 80's shows and comics and then compare to present ones - there's an obvious difference. (Aside from Marvel. Marvel started relatively early with grey areas, antiheros, villains with understandable motives and heros who fall from grace or doubt)
But in the later Transformer continuities the Council/society usually treated the lower classes like dirt and the Cons rebelled, only to lose their direction and turn into violent monsters. Usually, while the Cons certainly take things too far and use terror and violence to reach their goals, the motives behind their rebellion usually are understandable and just (at least in the beginning).
You know, I don't know. But I go look it up now XD
SF201: Blades.
BR: Oh, I forgot him.
But I think he falls under the odd and created in the war rule - if there is such a rule XD
Vos:
Usually Vos is only mentioned in passing as the home-city of some of the Cons. Only once, in the Marvel continuity is plays a greater role.
Here's the text:
Vos was ruled by a shadowy cabal that propped up Starscream as its figurehead.
In the closing days of the Golden Age, many of the city-states had rivalries with their neighbors, thus laying the foundation for much of the conflict that followed.
In an attempt to channel this competition, an Overlord had created a series of Arena Tournaments with the intent to quell the unrest between the city-states and bring them closer together. His efforts failed and war broke out between Vos and its rival, Tarn.
Shortly thereafter, Vos and Tarn annihilated each other with a volley of missiles. Megatron put the blame on Iacon for starting the conflict and recruited many of its survivors into his fledgling Decepticon army. State Games
And now what Marvel has about Tarn:
Tarn was one of Cybertron's many city-states before the advent of the Great War and was ruled by a military dictator named Shockwave.
War had broken out between Tarn and Vos despite an Overlord's attempts to lay the foundation of peace between Cybertron's city states by holding the State Games, which were arena tournaments.
Two of the gladiators, Megatron and Optimus Prime, and the Overlord and his two bodyguards attempted to escape the war by traveling to Iacon. The group were slowed to a halt just at the border by the Overlord's energy depletion and Optimus Prime rushed ahead to get help from Iacon. While they waited one of the Overlord's bodyguards, Nightstalker was killed. Megatron and the other bodyguard, Ravage, then abandoned the Overlord to die, making their own way to Iacon.
After Tarn and Vos had destroyed each other with photon missiles, Megatron recruited many of the survivors into his new Decepticon army by laying blame on Iacon.
And now we should take another look at the rivalcy between Screamer and Ol'One-Eye *eg*
SF201: Definitely an interesting piece of history. Might explain why Starscream and Shockwave cannot stand each other.
BR: Aside from their completely different personality.
One of them is married to logic and the other bends logic to his will whenever it suits him.
This time it's about flyers - or the lack thereof XD
Enjoy and tell us what you think about the topic ^^
It all started out with the statement, that the Autobots would have problems accepting new flyers into their ranks and why there were so few flyers on their side in the first place.
Starfire201: When you consider they have Powerglide, Swoop and Cosmos, and later on the Aerialbots, it's not too hard to figure out they realized flyers were necessary.
Balrog Roike: Yeah, but six of these flyers were built near the end of the war, one of the others is next to useless in an atmosphere and Powerglide has the attitude of a Seeker without the abilities to back it up XD
Not really a point for the Bots.
SF201: True what you're saying about that. However, there had to have been more flyers than just the Seekers, given that there were indeed flyer types in the Autobot ranks. Powerglide couldn't have been the only minibot flyer out there, and Skyfire and Cosmos were likely not the only ones of their kind either. So where did the others go? My suspicion is actually a simple one and runs along the premise that most of those flyers were likely wiped out when they refused to join the Decepticons. Yes, I know there are holes in that, but it does make some sense.
BR: But when the Cons started to wipe all other flyers out, why wouldn't the flyers run to the Autobots, and if just to be protected?
I think either the Council started to happily wipe the other flyers out as well, as a precaution should they change their mind after some forceful persuasion of the Cons, or there really were only the Seekers, some triplechangers, a few shuttles and some odd cases of minibot flyers and helicopters. The Seekers were the largest in number and had their own society while the others were just a few odd ones here and there.
SF201: As for the Council, yes it does make a lot of sense (and you just reminded me of another Autobot flyer there). But when you think about it, the causes of the war are different in each universe, really. There are those which are closer than others, though, I'll concede that point. For my part, I have to say we really just don't know for sure. G1 never really went into that too much.
There is something I've wondered: Is the destruction of Vos canon or fanon?
BR: What other Autobot flyer. I only know those you already named and some of the Wreckers.
G1 never went into it because it was an 80's show. There it was okay if everything was black in white. The Cons started the war, so they were the bad ones, a real reason wasn't needed.
Grey areas and background information as well as sympathy for the devils and good intentions turning into violence came much later.
Take a look at 80's shows and comics and then compare to present ones - there's an obvious difference. (Aside from Marvel. Marvel started relatively early with grey areas, antiheros, villains with understandable motives and heros who fall from grace or doubt)
But in the later Transformer continuities the Council/society usually treated the lower classes like dirt and the Cons rebelled, only to lose their direction and turn into violent monsters. Usually, while the Cons certainly take things too far and use terror and violence to reach their goals, the motives behind their rebellion usually are understandable and just (at least in the beginning).
You know, I don't know. But I go look it up now XD
SF201: Blades.
BR: Oh, I forgot him.
But I think he falls under the odd and created in the war rule - if there is such a rule XD
Vos:
Usually Vos is only mentioned in passing as the home-city of some of the Cons. Only once, in the Marvel continuity is plays a greater role.
Here's the text:
Vos was ruled by a shadowy cabal that propped up Starscream as its figurehead.
In the closing days of the Golden Age, many of the city-states had rivalries with their neighbors, thus laying the foundation for much of the conflict that followed.
In an attempt to channel this competition, an Overlord had created a series of Arena Tournaments with the intent to quell the unrest between the city-states and bring them closer together. His efforts failed and war broke out between Vos and its rival, Tarn.
Shortly thereafter, Vos and Tarn annihilated each other with a volley of missiles. Megatron put the blame on Iacon for starting the conflict and recruited many of its survivors into his fledgling Decepticon army. State Games
And now what Marvel has about Tarn:
Tarn was one of Cybertron's many city-states before the advent of the Great War and was ruled by a military dictator named Shockwave.
War had broken out between Tarn and Vos despite an Overlord's attempts to lay the foundation of peace between Cybertron's city states by holding the State Games, which were arena tournaments.
Two of the gladiators, Megatron and Optimus Prime, and the Overlord and his two bodyguards attempted to escape the war by traveling to Iacon. The group were slowed to a halt just at the border by the Overlord's energy depletion and Optimus Prime rushed ahead to get help from Iacon. While they waited one of the Overlord's bodyguards, Nightstalker was killed. Megatron and the other bodyguard, Ravage, then abandoned the Overlord to die, making their own way to Iacon.
After Tarn and Vos had destroyed each other with photon missiles, Megatron recruited many of the survivors into his new Decepticon army by laying blame on Iacon.
And now we should take another look at the rivalcy between Screamer and Ol'One-Eye *eg*
SF201: Definitely an interesting piece of history. Might explain why Starscream and Shockwave cannot stand each other.
BR: Aside from their completely different personality.
One of them is married to logic and the other bends logic to his will whenever it suits him.