Comments | bast_setesh: Okay, let's try this:

bast_setesh

Okay, let's try this:

Oct 14, 2005 23:30

This is a public post, much more civil than the last.

I must make a few things clear:

I do NOT feel I was unjustified for my actions earlier, however after talking to glitterygashes, I do know I was wrong. Marissa is actually a very nice, very smart, and very interesting girl, and I was mistaken about her intent. I do feel badly about upsetting her, as the ( Read more... )

Comments 26

heartofkara October 15 2005, 04:59:37 UTC

yes, I do feel as though the so-called "oppression" is the fault of modern-day women, and no, I was not brainwashed by the patriarchal society. I am not dismissing the fact that life for women is unfair; however there is nothing stopping women from changing that by making sacrifices and proving themselves to men.What you're saying is that a group that makes up half of the population that is already oppressed should make FURTHER sacrifices (something which is encouraged by patriarchy) to gain freedom instead of demanding it from those who opress us? I gotta tell you that those of us who are feminists DO make sacrifices, the only sense of "power" we're aloud to have in this patriarchy is by giving into it, like wearing a short skirt around the boss to get promoted or give into stereotypical roles to be accepted - a feminist is someone who not only believes in equal value for men, women, masculine, and feminine but lives it out each day...when we act in a feminist way instead of giving in to the "easier" route which would promote ( ... )

aristaea October 15 2005, 06:01:16 UTC

a group that makes up half of the population that is already oppressed should make FURTHER sacrifices (something which is encouraged by patriarchy) to gain freedom instead of demanding it from those who opress us?

Any group, semi-majority or not, with a valid claim to equality should have no difficulty in simply proving their value and worth and claim as equals. Nobody benefits from sitting around complaining; in fact, complaining about the "oppressive patriarchy" only makes feminists appear sulky and juvenile. It doesn't make women look good, and therefore it doesn't further the cause. I find that by simply acting in a manner commensurate with what I want-respect and acknowledgement from men based on my abilities-I tend to get what I want. And I work in academia, which is a traditionally male pursuit and still dominated by elderly men, especially in the areas I gravitate towards, which deal with "hard" sciences and engineering. I would never, never put on a miniskirt, or even a tight blouse or heels, in order to be taken seriously. ( ... )

heartofkara October 15 2005, 19:06:54 UTC

Is it fair that we have to do more to overcome this problem? No. But is it right? Yes. If you have a problem, then obviously it should be your responsibility to change it. It is our job as women to do what needs to be done in order to change the opinions of those who are "oppressing" us. That is how it always is. You can't click a button; you can't even write a pamphlet. No one will ever take women seriously if all we do is "demand" our "freedom". It's like a child demanding dessert: "Sure honey, but not until you eat your vegetables." Instead, we must take an active role in changing the world around us, and that doesn't mean complaining about it. It means showing people through our actions that there is a different way. So basically, women need to eat their vegetables before they get freedom.Oh I never said that we shouldn't have to FIGHT for our freedom - we do, it's the responsibility of anyone, man or woman, who believes in feminism to fight for the cause against those who stand for patriarchy (which includes some men and some ( ... )

aristaea October 15 2005, 21:40:59 UTC

Not everyone has the priviledge of being respected just for working hard

No, but then one should always make an effort to surround oneself with the best people one can find, the kind of people who will respect you for that; the kind of people whose opinions actually matter. And one should make an effort to demonstrate to others that this is the correct, most productive viewpoint; that people should be valued equally according to merit, and not according to gender. People who do not understand this are ultimately not worth one's time or attention. Remember that the feminist revolution is only just begun, and change in the hearts and minds of men takes time.

somehow became more aware of how repressed they are in our society DON'T find out

This is patently absurd. In our society-industrialised Western society- there is a probability of perhaps 0.0003 that a woman will be unfamiliar with feminism. Unless they are indoctrinated in some cult from birth, or Amish, or something else where they are sheltered from pop culture and the media ( ... )

Thread 13

glitterygashes October 15 2005, 19:41:31 UTC

I'm more of a BLAME EVERYONE type of person, because usually it's not just one person's fault. It's the collected fault of everyone's. Furthermore, it's the combined efforts of both parties that will help change be possible. I mean, it's not only men who think a woman's job is to be at home. Women are holding down women as well; I believe that. People think Feminism is automatically about just females when the reality is it's about everyone. It's about equality. No one's looking to be more favored than someone else. And if they are, then maybe they're on the extreme side of Feminism and I don't agree with that personally. Most feminists do admit that males are harmed in the process ( ... )

aristaea October 15 2005, 22:23:28 UTC

People think Feminism is automatically about just females when the reality is it's about everyone.

Yes, but that's partly because of the whole misleading name "feminism," when it should be called "non-gender specific equalitarianism" or something... :P

I sympathise with you on personal experience of male supremacy, I really do. I come from a very strict Hispanic family and men are always the ones in charge, women are always expected to cook and clean and be pregnant and look pretty, and when women don't comply with the demands of their husbands/fathers/brothers/elder men, they are yelled at, sometimes even beaten. But that is my family and their culture; with most of the people I encounter in daily life, gender equality is something that simply is. However, I am aware that inequalities exist, and I am aware in how they vary across societies and regions of the globe ( ... )

glitterygashes October 15 2005, 22:34:34 UTC

Yeah Latino culture is just....really messed up in their view of women. I had a Cuban boyfriend. I don't even want to get into how much I had to put up with ( ... )

part 1 aristaea October 15 2005, 23:07:39 UTC

But trends in this case can be interpreted as a good thing. Belief is based on experience, so if you have a large number of women saying they don't see male privilege everywhere, then for them it probably doesn't exist, at least in any meaningful way. Isn't that the goal? To eliminate gender privilege and have true equality? If all these women say it doesn't factor into their lives, then we are accomplishing that goal. Perhaps not everywhere, and perhaps slowly, but we are doing it.

We must, of course, be wary of the possibility that they could simply be unaware of the practice of patriarchy around them-but when significant numbers of educated females say they don't see it, it is more likely that they truly do not experience it than that they are all overlooking it ( ... )

Thread 13