There ain't no sin, there ain't no virtue. There's just stuff people do.

[belladonnalin]

I'm still kind of amazed that anyone is even remotely surprised that Prop 8 passed in California. I'm not dismissing the hurt and harm that it puts out to people in California, hell to queer folk and allies all over the U.S

Comments

[maudgonne]

I was going to link to slit's great essay until I saw it at the end. But you said your piece and said it well, too.

Prop 8 was being handily defeated until a couple of months ago, so maybe that's where some of the surprise comes from. Among the people I speak with, it's less surprise than disappoint that it happened again.

[belladonnalin]

Yeah, but that's often how these things play out - attention and focus go to the propositions in the last few months.

Hey, I'm disappointed, too, you know? It's personal for me, though that's not the reason it's wrong, but. I don't know. I've seen some gross, gross shit said by queers and allies in the last week, stuff that makes bile rise to my throat.

I don't want to be on their side, I don't want them on mine. I want to know that the Bean could be guaranteed the right to see me if I was hospitalized, want to know that, if I died, my slightly homophobic brother couldn't win custody of our (as of yet theoretical but planned) children in court.

But I don't want it on these terms, you know?

[maudgonne]

I do know. Bigotry is never an excuse for bigotry, and things are getting even uglier out there.

[belladonnalin]

It just makes me sad. I've never understood how these are the choices we end up making, as activists, as human beings.

And we never stand together and the same people win every. single. time.

[secrethappiness]

Every single one of these posts and articles trying to tie the passing of the propositions and amendments to people of color voting makes me so sick. I hate to see this kind of racism even though I know it exists.

It's like we're saying to the POC community, "Good on you for voting and waiting in line for 4 hours and fighting to get registered. But here's the thing, we feel you didn't vote the way we wanted even though we have no proof of this so do us a favor and stop participating. Thanks!"

For fuck's sake, Amendment 2 passed in Florida, a state that derives its income from tourism and construction. Guess who makes up a large percentage of tourists and homebuyers in Florida? Gays. I know people who voted for and against it, and the color of their skin didn't really affect their voting.

[maudgonne]

Yes, this.

I think some of the "proof" is based on exit polls, which aren't always the most reliable sources of data, obviously. The thing is, I do think it's important to be aware of the reasons Prop 8 passed, in terms of funding and demographics and organization. But not because we need to know who our "enemies" are, or the best ways to "fight" them, or where to direct our rage. Blaming this setback on religious people, or PoC, is bigoted and not at all useful. The only constructive response is to figure out ways to reach out to other communities and individuals, and to figure out how to run a better campaign next time.

I keep trying to articulate my thoughts on all this and not doing it half as well as other people.

[fightingwords]

About those exit polls--170 black folks were asked how they voted, and that's what the "70%" is coming from. Hasn't anyone taken a basic stats class? That's not a valid sample.

[maudgonne]

As I pointed out, not always the most reliable sources of data, which is why I put "proof" in quotes.

[rkt]

the county statistics out of arkansas are clear that it was the (White) rural counties that tipped the law into passing.

seriously, people. this shit is not that complicated.

[belladonnalin]

And, for real, that's generally true. Like, are we really so uncritical that we don't see that a white-dominated media might be playing POC against queer activists?

[belladonnalin]

Oh, I think the last time I listed to his ass was when he was trying to tell women what kinds of pants we should wear unless we were thin.

Stupid ass.

[spinningtoofast]

Thanks for posting this. There are way more white people in California than people of colour. If white people had voted against proposition 8 (which was originally put forward by the whitest of all people, Mormons), it wouldn't have passed.

Not to mention that every single person of colour blogger I read was adamantly in favour of it - of course, most of them ARE queer.

Also, great point about not expecting allies where outreach hasn't been done. I hadn't really considered that, but you're absolutely right.

[belladonnalin]

*nod*

It's complicated, as all meeting points of identity and oppression are, but I wish people wouldn't be so damn ignorant, you know?