Comments | beyond_the_rim: S5: No Compromises, The Very Long Night, Paragon

alto2 in beyond_the_rim

S5: No Compromises, The Very Long Night, Paragon

Jun 15, 2011 21:08

I'm pinch-hitting here, and am mostly concentrating on the Londo episode because, well...I can. And it's Londo being so, so Londo. Feel free to comment on any of the three, though.

( The Very Long Night of Londo Mollari )

s5: spoiler-friendly

Comments 15

vjs2259 June 16 2011, 03:17:20 UTC

I have gone back and forth and forth and back on whether Londo had a moral imperative to speak out (and Vir too! Everyone gives Vir a pass...) or whether it was for the greater good. Cartagia would have probably just had them all killed of course ( ... )

alto2 June 16 2011, 21:26:41 UTC

Everyone gives Vir a pass

And yet, Vir not only spoke out, he was running the Underground Narn Railroad on Minbar. I'm not sure his pass is altogether unjustified.

I do think Cartagia wouldn't have hesitated to kill Londo if he'd dared to speak out, in which case Londo would have been able to do nothing for G'Kar at all, G'Kar would doubtless have been tortured until he was dead, and Narn would still be occupied while Cartagia was living it up at home. I can't really make an argument that says that Londo didn't take the best course of action for all involved, no matter how much I agree with G'Kar that Londo should have said something and allowed terrible things to happen. Perhaps, though, that's an argument better made re: Refa's invasion of Narn? In that case, Londo speaking up definitely had more potential to make a difference. (I'm not convinced Refa would have given a damn, though.)

Sometimes I think that the moral imperative would have been filled by Londo's keeping quiet at the time but admitting his complicity to G'Kar with ( ... )

vjs2259 June 18 2011, 00:10:50 UTC

My very long and interesting reply to this was lost somewhere around Hartford on I-91 yesterday. *shakes fist at Verizon ( ... )

alto2 June 19 2011, 02:07:41 UTC

Eee, sorry to hear about the lost post ( ... )

vjs2259 June 16 2011, 10:48:30 UTC

Another point to ponder: originally the title was The Very Long Night of Susan Ivanova.

What the heck would that have been about?!?

lone_gunfreak June 16 2011, 21:06:18 UTC

Going by what JMS has said his plans for her in the 5th season would have been - paired up with Byron (urgh) and involved in his whole plot - my guess is that it would be strongly telepath themed, probably dealing a lot with her mom (and potentially Talia, though I don't know if Andrea Thompson would've come back for the episode).

(Star Trek icon in lieu of a more appropriate B5 icon)

alto2 June 16 2011, 21:16:51 UTC

I was figuring the obvious choice was Marcus, especially since this is the second episode and the Byron thing's barely off the ground. (And if we're going with a similar theme, she's got a LOT of guilt there.) Doesn't mean I'm right--you could very well be onto something. It could even have been both.

nhpw June 17 2011, 18:38:50 UTC

Someday, when it's raining and I'm bored, I'm going to draw out a fun little alternate timeline for all the might-have-beens of B5. And it will be hilarious - ie, that awkward moment in alt-Season 4 when Delenn realizes she's in love with Sinclair, who is also Valen, and she's a Child of Valen... and. Yeah. It will also talk about Ivanova in Season 5.

The way I figure it, IF JMS had done things as he'd planned out on his little notecards, and IF he'd known there would be a Season 5, then S4 would've ended on Intersections in Real Time and this episode would've been *dun dun DUUUUUN* about the time Ivanova was dying following her and Marcus's encounter with the Shadowfied Earth Destroyers. So I figure it would've been tied to that. The very long night of Susan Ivanova, and her body working out its demons, trying to decide if she would live or die.

My question, then, is whether or not Marcus still would've sacrificed himself for her.

Thread 5

kungfuwaynewho June 17 2011, 16:40:21 UTC

I mostly think of these episodes as the one where I FF through John talking about socks so I can watch kisses.

kungfuwaynewho June 17 2011, 16:45:04 UTC

Oh, and also this:

( ... )

alto2 June 17 2011, 16:49:02 UTC

LOL yeah, he looks SO much better without it!!

nhpw June 17 2011, 18:41:36 UTC

But... but...

*sigh*

We will be having this discussion until the end of time.

I like the goatee. I just do not like that it's orange. But then, I go for a guy with a goatee in general. So. Yeah.

nhpw June 17 2011, 18:55:51 UTC

I am just going to say it.

I am perhaps the only person in the fandom that likes No Compromises.

THERE. I SAID IT. AND I REFUSE TO BE ASHAMED!

I mean, I wouldn't rank it in my top 5 or anything. Probably not even my top 10. But I don't dislike it. I watch it voluntarily. The whole thing. I like Corwin being all "HI THIS IS MY STATION" at the beginning. I like the thing about the socks. I... don't hate Lochley. I like Garibaldi in this episode a lot, because this is in the Good Times, between Brainwashed!Garibaldi and Off-The-Wagon!Garibaldi.

I like The Very Long Night... better, of course. For all of its awesomeness. Ultimate redeeming act for Londo, before he starts down the slippery slope again. But you guys pretty well covered that.

And, um, Paragon IDC really, except that if you ignore Byron foreverfor just a second - how awesome is Londo and G'Kar's banter at the beginning? And did anybody else notice that JMS's credit flashes across the screen at the exact moment that G'Kar says "My muse is speaking to me ( ... )

alto2 June 20 2011, 14:20:05 UTC

Embarrassing true fact--by the time I realized I was going to have to cover this post, I couldn't really remember what happened in No Compromises. Now that you've reminded me, yes, I agree that it has some great moments, especially with wee Simon.

Londo and G'Kar rock. And the idea of G'Kar reading bedtime stories is hilarious and wonderful all at the same time! :)