Comments | bible_heretics: The Virgin Birth

reginaterrae in bible_heretics

The Virgin Birth

Aug 29, 2009 18:05

I think it's a shame that the Virgin Birth story has gotten to be such a big honkin deal in Christianity. Now let me quick say that I don't have any problem suspending disbelief enough to accept that it could have happened that way. Heck, if you can believe in the Incarnation at all -- if you can believe in GOD at all, for that matter, then how can ( Read more... )

Comments 7

alasthai August 29 2009, 23:14:23 UTC

The point is the mixture: fully divine (as the actual son of the actual deity), whilst also fully human (as the actual son of an actual mortal). This idea was famously encapsulated in the Chalcedonian formula, but shows up as early as the Epistles (qv Phil 2:6-7, Heb 2:16) and even in 1 Enoch (ch 46ff), where the Messiah is called "the son of Man" to distinguish between his origins and the angels' supernatural ones. Parts of 1 Enoch may predate the Gospels, but it is very hard to tell ( ... )

reginaterrae August 29 2009, 23:59:47 UTC

Yes, yes, but to me it is a mistake. Why can't Jesus be God's own child, God Himself incarnate, without making God the Father who is NOT incarnate into a carnal kind of father? You see what I mean?

alasthai August 30 2009, 00:27:21 UTC

Um, no, I don't. How does creating life inside Mary make God carnal, especially when we are talking about someone who can also create matter and energy by mere will?

reginaterrae August 30 2009, 00:38:44 UTC

Because if he's not creating that life by a carnal process, then how is the presence or absence of a human father relevant at all? Is He replacing the human father or is His action something altogether different?

Thread 6

reginaterrae August 30 2009, 12:05:20 UTC

So maybe I'm being too vehement about this. I do see the beauty of the metaphor ... it's just imperfect, that's all, as are all metaphors about God. I guess my problem is with taking it so FAR. Not only was Mary a virgin when Jesus was conceived, she was a virgin forever. OK, fine, but that includes in the act of giving birth. (Catechism 499). The Catechism doesn't define "virginity" in this context, but presumably it means that her hymen wasn't torn by the baby coming through.

The Protoevangelium of James has Joseph go find a midwife (Salome) to assist Mary in the cave ( ... )