Wow, awesome recap. I pretty much agree with everything. I am TOTALLY on board with Dean being an unreliable narrator; I mentioned to Cande that I'd be pissed if this was all a Dallas/Who Shot JR? dream sequence, but I don't think it is, really. Still, Dean did not see Sam until he had been poisoned by the djinn and as you so insightfully pointed out, no one is coming across as "right" to me - not Bobby, and not Sam, certainly.
People are saying "Sam changed!" and using that to explain his behavior, but I'm not buying it completely. Sam with a hooker? Back in 4x01 he was proud to tell Dean he didn't have to pay for it. Sam lying/withholding from Dean? Sam's not stupid, he learns from his mistakes. Sam cool with child torture? Uh...NO. This is the guy who wanted to sing "Kumbahya" with vampires. Yes, yes, Sam has definitely changed, but I think something changed him, if that makes sense; this is not a rational character development for him AT ALL based on season 4 & 5. Your point about his excuses being limp-wristed at best is
( ... )
I'd be pissed if this was all a Dallas/Who Shot JR? dream sequence
I've not completely discounted this yet, but I'd be very disappointed if this were the outcome. In the end, there are afew too many things that have happened outside of Dean's immediate awareness - Samuel and co. capturing the Djinn being the main one. I mean, if this is a dream sequence then Dean can dream anything, I suppose, but it really wouldn't make good narrative sense. So I'm hopeful on this point.
something changed him, if that makes sense
It makes perfect sense. The contrasts with previous seasons canon are frequent and obvious, and clearly there to be picked up on. And I like to think (in my blindly optimistic way) that the writers wouldn't just head down the well-trodden 'something's wrong with Sammy' road without having something to back it up. I'm convinced that some outside influence is at work here, and the mystery surrounding Sam's return just convinces me more. And I think that's Dean's opinion too, for what it's worth.
One thing Cande brought up was the idea that Sam doesn't have a soul anymore - technical details of how he might still be alive without it notwithstanding (this is SPN! Everybody wave your hands!), I really *like* that idea as an explanation. Hiring hookers, not caring about torturing a child, being distant with Dean: without a soul, he would not FEEL the emotions that would otherwise underpin those situations such as shame, compassion, guilt, or fear. He's like an automaton who knows what he is supposed to care about, but like a sociopath, he simply doesn't. If that's the case, then I would guess that he's made some kind of deal to get it back, which would be interesting, and would explain why he's not talking to Dean about it.
I'm rolling round to something approaching this conclusion myself, and have been doing sporadic rewatches with this in mind. Sam's not entirely without emotion - he appears to feel fear when facing a fight, he definitely felt annoyance at Cas not coming to him, and there seems to be some disappointment at Dean choosing to stay with Lisa (plus the snark he gives about this subject smacks of jealousy).
What he seems to be missing is the emotions linked to empathy - there doesn't seem to be any real understanding of the concept that others have feelings. Which could easily be a side-effect of soul-tampering. As for how aware he is of the changes to himself - I don't think he fully understands what's happened to him, but I do think his prevarication implies that he has some memory he's not sharing.
I love having this much to speculate about - I just hope Show lives up to the effort!
Re: locker room blood squish FTWbistokidsOctober 15 2010, 19:19:07 UTC
Wow, loving the detailed feedback - thanks! :D
I think you're right that the fact that I tend to be drawn more towards Dean does have an influence on what aspects I like more - although I adore Sam too, and I've never really understood the insistence from parts of the fandom that it has to be one or the other!
I'm waiting to be convinced about Balthazar, and he could fit very neatly in the gap left behind by Gabriel (although I'd rather just have Gabriel back *sniff*). So far I'm not seeing it, but a lot of others are, and I'm perfectly willing to do a complete u-turn on this at some later point.
The thing about the conversation at the end, for me, is not in any way that Sam doesn't want to open up to Dean. I absolutely defend his right not to talk, as being (as you point out) the same right Dean exercised in S4. And after all, the 'no chick flick moments' was Dean's rule in the first place, a rule he stuck pretty well to for 3 seasons (I sometimes think if S1 Dean met S5 Dean he'd just punch him on principle!) It's more the
( ... )
Re: locker room blood squish FTWblythechildOctober 15 2010, 19:42:53 UTC
I, too, believe that the writers are leading us towards some big Sam revelation but I think that there is a lot to be said for your theory of S6 being viewed through a Dean lens. I dunno what the lad expected when his little brother came back from the dead but it's clear that this isn't it and there's a lot of Dean-is-pissed-off seeping into their interaction as a result. I think that something has changed in Sam, no doubt, but I also think that at least half of that is some maturing on his part - being self-sufficient and alone for a year. He always chaffed against Dean's protection - I think that Dean is upset that Sam doesn't seem to need him as much. What would their relationship be like if they had mutual confidence in each other?
*headsmack* What am I saying? That would be dangerously healthy and lacking the expected homoerotic undertones... where would we be then?!? ;)
Thank you! I am intending to do reviews on most/all of the eps, but then good intentions are all very well. I've been away for a week, so I'll try and catch up as and when. In the meantime, I'm delighted you enjoyed this one, and I'll gladly friend back, although I'm not the most prolific LJ-er! :)
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People are saying "Sam changed!" and using that to explain his behavior, but I'm not buying it completely. Sam with a hooker? Back in 4x01 he was proud to tell Dean he didn't have to pay for it. Sam lying/withholding from Dean? Sam's not stupid, he learns from his mistakes. Sam cool with child torture? Uh...NO. This is the guy who wanted to sing "Kumbahya" with vampires. Yes, yes, Sam has definitely changed, but I think something changed him, if that makes sense; this is not a rational character development for him AT ALL based on season 4 & 5. Your point about his excuses being limp-wristed at best is ( ... )
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I've not completely discounted this yet, but I'd be very disappointed if this were the outcome. In the end, there are afew too many things that have happened outside of Dean's immediate awareness - Samuel and co. capturing the Djinn being the main one. I mean, if this is a dream sequence then Dean can dream anything, I suppose, but it really wouldn't make good narrative sense. So I'm hopeful on this point.
something changed him, if that makes sense
It makes perfect sense. The contrasts with previous seasons canon are frequent and obvious, and clearly there to be picked up on. And I like to think (in my blindly optimistic way) that the writers wouldn't just head down the well-trodden 'something's wrong with Sammy' road without having something to back it up. I'm convinced that some outside influence is at work here, and the mystery surrounding Sam's return just convinces me more. And I think that's Dean's opinion too, for what it's worth.
Lisa getting ( ... )
Reply
One thing Cande brought up was the idea that Sam doesn't have a soul anymore - technical details of how he might still be alive without it notwithstanding (this is SPN! Everybody wave your hands!), I really *like* that idea as an explanation. Hiring hookers, not caring about torturing a child, being distant with Dean: without a soul, he would not FEEL the emotions that would otherwise underpin those situations such as shame, compassion, guilt, or fear. He's like an automaton who knows what he is supposed to care about, but like a sociopath, he simply doesn't. If that's the case, then I would guess that he's made some kind of deal to get it back, which would be interesting, and would explain why he's not talking to Dean about it.
Gahhh!
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What he seems to be missing is the emotions linked to empathy - there doesn't seem to be any real understanding of the concept that others have feelings. Which could easily be a side-effect of soul-tampering. As for how aware he is of the changes to himself - I don't think he fully understands what's happened to him, but I do think his prevarication implies that he has some memory he's not sharing.
I love having this much to speculate about - I just hope Show lives up to the effort!
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I think you're right that the fact that I tend to be drawn more towards Dean does have an influence on what aspects I like more - although I adore Sam too, and I've never really understood the insistence from parts of the fandom that it has to be one or the other!
I'm waiting to be convinced about Balthazar, and he could fit very neatly in the gap left behind by Gabriel (although I'd rather just have Gabriel back *sniff*). So far I'm not seeing it, but a lot of others are, and I'm perfectly willing to do a complete u-turn on this at some later point.
The thing about the conversation at the end, for me, is not in any way that Sam doesn't want to open up to Dean. I absolutely defend his right not to talk, as being (as you point out) the same right Dean exercised in S4. And after all, the 'no chick flick moments' was Dean's rule in the first place, a rule he stuck pretty well to for 3 seasons (I sometimes think if S1 Dean met S5 Dean he'd just punch him on principle!) It's more the ( ... )
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*headsmack* What am I saying? That would be dangerously healthy and lacking the expected homoerotic undertones... where would we be then?!? ;)
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Have friended you, just in case
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