Special Topic #6 -- In Defense of Lee Adama

[dianora2]

I volunteered to write one of these "sprinkles" posts for the community, and since zinke already claimed my favorite subject -- arms -- I'm going to go with my second favorite subject: Lee Adama

Comments

[antismiles]

LEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

*glomps you*

This is amazing and I love it. Also? You totally made me rethink a few things with this: ... Lee is a solider who needs a war; IMO, that's crap. Lee is a crusader who needs a cause, which is not the same thing. Very well said. I hadn't thought of it that way before, but you're absolutely right. I knew there had to be a reason that line didn't sit well. :)

[dianora2]

Thanks! I'm glad you liked. And yeah, that line has always bugged me -- I choose to take it as just further evidence that Dee didn't understand her husband very well. *g*

[elzed]

Oh, I like the way you think - and by and large, I entirely agree with you. I think where Lee works as a soldier is where he works as a civilian leader, and the ability to see the bigger picture, to make painful decisions, is absolutely part of this (I got a little obsessed about the nature of command, looking at it through Razor, a little while ago). And the military training helps - and makes him capable of sending the woman he loves on a suicide mission, because that's what happens at war.

I love his mix of pragmatism and idealism, his strong moral sense, and his ability and willingness to question his decisions when he feels there is a serious conflict. And, like you, I don't so much think he's self-righteous as righteous. The fact that he expresses his dilemmas just means we get more of an insight into his heart and mind.

Oh, whatevs. I just think he's such a rich, varied, complex character - such a pleasure to watch (and I don't just mean the pretty, although that is a VERY powerful argument in his favour!), and such a joy to

[dianora2]

Yes, yes, yes. IAWTC. :)

The fact that he expresses his dilemmas just means we get more of an insight into his heart and mind.

Exactly -- there's so much more to explore with him than there is with a lot of other characters on the show. And I love that Jamie is willing to portray him so openly and honestly.

[zinke]

since zinke already claimed my favorite subject -- arms

I've always thought of Lee as being the poster-boy for arms...

I've always hated Dee's line that Lee is a solider who needs a war; IMO that's crap. Lee is a crusader who needs a cause, which is not the same thing.

YES - I've never seen this put so well before. Although I now have this image in my head of Lee as Sir Galahad from Monty Python and the Holy Grail....

I've come to develop a better appreciation of Lee during season four, though I will say that he shares a trait with his father - a tendency to wear blinders (in Bill's case regarding people he loves, in Lee's that the right thing is always the right thing regardless of the situation) - that for whatever reason I find frustratingly endearing in Bill and kind of annoying in Lee. Is this fair? Of course not. But I can't seem to turn it off.

[dionusia]

Lee's that the right thing is always the right thing regardless of the situation

That's interesting, because I see him making compromises all over the place -- because the wellbeing of the fleet trumps what is 'right' for him. I especially saw this in the case when he took over the presidency in "Sine Qua Non." It was Zarek's by right and Adama was absolutely wrong not to recognize him, but Lee didn't join Zarek in wanting to incite a civil war over it -- instead he chose to take it himself, to prevent that from happening. To quote my friend bop_radar, he becomes president because his dad sucks, and there's no way around Bill's de facto power over the government and the fleet.

I find Bill's lack of pragmatism frustrating at times, and his behavior in that instance in particular juvenile in the extreme. But I guess we all get frustrated by different things!

[zinke]

I see him making compromises all over the place

I do think he's capable of compromising - as long as in doing so his moral compass isn't disturbed (if that makes sense). Lee does what he thinks is right (as Laura has said) which is in no way a criticism, but I think he tends to do what he thinks is right regardless of the context, with mixed results.

Yes, he intervenes to keep Zarek and Adama from killing (metaphorically or otherwise) one another, and I think that was indeed the right thing to do. He believed his questioning of Roslin during Baltar's trial was the right thing to do to preserve the integrity of the system - but was it the 'right' thing to do? Did he achieve the outcome he'd desired?

I do think he's moving away from this apparently genetically inherited tunnel vision thing as he's becoming more certain of who he is and what he wants, but it's always been something that bothered me for no legitimate or sensible reason.

I find Bill's lack of pragmatism frustrating at timesAnd I know that I should as well, but

[dionusia]

I think he tends to do what he thinks is right regardless of the context, with mixed results.

Turning his back on democracy, accepting the need for a black market...I don't see him as inflexible. The stability of the fleet and the security of humanity are paramount with him, so he will sacrifice both his ideals and his loved ones in the name of that -- and personally I think that's a good thing. But YMMV. (In the case of Gaius, it's hard to say how exactly he poses a threat to humanity by his very existence...but if she'd wanted to, Roslin could have executed him easily without trial.)

He believed his questioning of Roslin during Baltar's trial was the right thing to do to preserve the integrity of the system - but was it the 'right' thing to do? Did he achieve the outcome he'd desired?

Isn't his whole point when he gets put on the stand that there isn't a real system anymore? He yells that at Romo, after all. He's trying to point out that the trial is a sham, and that forgiveness is is the way they've collectively muddled

[dionusia]

I love this post so much! And I have a lot to say in response, but I have to keep most of that for later. For now, though:

can most of his actions be chalked up to his daddy issues?

I think that really misses the mark, because it's not all about personal loyalty or disloyalty with him (something his dad just doesn't get). He challenges his father only when he believes it's absolutely necessary. As he tells Roslin after she thanks him for supporting her against the coup d'etat, "I didn't do it for you." It wasn't about choosing sides. He doesn't go looking to take a jab at Adama at every opportunity, either; far from it. He's asked to make a broadcast denouncing his father's takeover and even though he believes it was wrong, he can't bring himself to do it. When the Pegasus CAG snarks about Adama, he bristles in defense; when Gaius starts in on him, after the trial is over, Lee threatens to punch him if he doesn't shut the hell up (though his relationship with his father couldn't be at a lower point). If Lee were the all-

[dianora2]

it's not all about personal loyalty or disloyalty with him (something his dad just doesn't get). He challenges his father only when he believes it's absolutely necessary.

Yes, exactly. Back to that big picture thing. Do Lee and his father have issues with each other? Yes. Is it what drives him? No. Lee is certainly capable of being petty, particularly when it comes to Kara, but he wouldn't let it distract from the greater good.

He's very aware of this because he's been on the receiving end of forgiveness many times himself, even though he feels he's undeserving. Oh, Lee!

Makes you want to hug him tight, doesn't it? Even more so than usual? *g*

Thanks for commenting!

[arielmoondance]

Some very interesting questions you pose. Some people believe that he is easily manipulated but I think that he goes with what he believes in. He knew Zarek had a point but he never lost sight of who Zarek was. He is able to distinguish the truth from the source. It doesnt mean he is going to buy into everything and be uber loyal to that person. Lee is loyal to doing the right thing and standing up for it even if it looks like he is switching sides or what have you.

[dianora2]

I agree. I think people often mistake Lee's brand of idealism for naivete, but it's not at all. He wants to do what's right while still realizing that it's not always possible, and that sometimes you have to compromise, like dionusia says above, to make that happen. Lee knows as well as anyone what Zarek is capable of -- he's seen it with his own eyes.