c13

Free will, anybody?

Jan 09, 2007 11:53

Based on some of the replies I got in my recent post about free will, I'm curious as to what everybody thinks about if free will exists or not.

Poll Free will Jan 9 07

free will, poll

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Comments 8

robotropolis January 9 2007, 16:25:12 UTC
Of course, it all depends what you mean by free will. Do humans have every choice, ever? No, we're limited by our faulty perception, by experience, by emotion, by imagination. We can't choose to fly, nor can we choose (in most cases) to keep our hand on a hot burner, nor can we choose a 100% healthy and virtuous lifestyle.

But I like the line: "the subconscious proposes, the mind disposes." We have a lot of impulses and wants, but we choose whether or not to act on them. I truly believe that. To me, free will means that there is some choice about what we do AND that what we do isn't 100% pre-ordained, even as it is not a 100% random occurence. We have the capacity to surprise, to a greater extent than, say, computers.

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c13 January 9 2007, 18:08:19 UTC
I would submit that chosing what impulses to act on and which ones to supress are simply different parts of the brain working with and against one another. There are neurological conditions where if a certain area of the brain is damaged or malformed, the afflicted person literally has zero impulse control. Unfortunately since I have no idea what this condidtion is called I can't link to it anywhere. The existance of this sort of condition however would seem to disprove that impulse control isn't simply another neurological mechanism within our brains the output of which, if it were sufficiently understood, could be predicted.

I believe that the main differences between us and computers (aside from locomotion and stuff like that) are the level of sophistication of our programming, and our perception of one being far more disposable than another.

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robotropolis January 9 2007, 18:14:20 UTC
I don't believe in souls; I personally believe people are 100% physical constructs. So if you think that believing in free will means that you believe there is some extra-physical thing that animates humans and differentiates us both from animals and machines, no, I don't believe in that.

However, the way I define mind (the part of your brain that is capable of cognition, imagination and making choices), I do think your mind (one part of your brain) can exert control over your subconscious (another part of your brain) in order to make decisions. To me, that's free will.

If the mind is damaged, that ability is impaired. There are people who have no cognition whatsoever, the same as there are people who have no impulse control or no imagination, or who can't recognize the entire left side of rooms.

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c13 January 9 2007, 19:48:47 UTC
Interesting. Based on your definition, do you think that it would be possible to eventually create a being (mechanical or otherwise) that actually had free will?

When I talk about the non-existance of free will, I essentially am referring to causal determinism. In other words, you and I were essentially fated to have this discussion in the exact way that we are, and that's all there is to it. I'm sure you already know what determinism is though, I just like completing my points.

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boomchica January 9 2007, 22:08:07 UTC
I should have put yes and no, but that wasn't an option.

As robotropolis said, it depends on the matter at hand.

Some decisions come with severe consequnces, like killing someone. It was my choice to not brush my teeth before going to bed last night. I just didn't care.
Some decisions we cannot make, I cannot free will myself into fitting into a size 2 dress.

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