Stumbling into controversies

[cabbage]

There could be something interesting to say about the whole US healthcare saga ... though I'm sure that others are covering it well elsewhere. I don't see a lot of meeting of minds so far in the blog comments I've seen - supporters of the NHS post in one place, detractors another (usually). Having had the UK decried on account of the NHS, the

Comments

[larissa_00]

Wasn't aware of a beekeeping drive; the fad in these parts seems to be keeping your own chickens (I just _know_ if I tried that, the poor things would be in ongoing terror of lady_cornflake who's taken to hunting birds with great enthusiasm).

[cabbage]

We'd considered that too - but did wonder about cat harassment and whether the time commitment would be a big deal (and could we eat eggs fast enough?)

[larissa_00]

Chicken owners here seem to do quite well selling eggs to folks in the office who wish (understandably) to avoid supermarket ones. If you're interested, I could find out more from the chicken gurus.

[cabbage]

Yes, my starting assumption was that I would consider honey an "animal product" - and indeed it is specifically named in the founding principles of the Vegan Society so in that sense there is no debate - their name, their rules. It would almost be more straightforward if they didn't attempt to justify those rules, and just said "it's a definition, it's up to you whether you decide to be vegan or not..." (That might not be entirely successful for campaigning on broader issues though!).

And I did wonder if the problem with their document was that of amalgamating the worst practices of an industry and presenting them as the norm rather than distinguishing between very different traditions.

[cabbage]

1. People will generally want to be comforted that they are "doing the right thing" so are generally unwilling to believe bad things about (for example) food production. If they don't have to know, I suspect they'd rather not.

2. I haven't seen the film but shall keep my eyes open for it.

3. Unfortunately not - as they've decided to move dates it now clashes with Greenbelt. Otherwise we would be there (with a non-mouldy tent!). Maybe we need to petition for a move back to an earlier date!

[sushiho]

So I'm kinda confused, do the Vegan society think that anyone setting up a hive on their property with the main aim of assisting the currently depleted bee population is a "good thing" or a "bad thing

[cabbage]

I suspect it's partly a matter of people's philosophy as to whether they think it's exploitation or a symbiotic relationship (some people object vociferously to the practice of keeping pets, for example).

However, a holistic view might accept that the keeping of bees in an organised manner (not necessarily an industrial one) may be a necessity for current agriculture to actually work - and as you say, we're not going to force anyone to eat honey if they don't want to.

I haven't actually discussed this face-to-face with any vegans either- it's not really something I'd thought about until the last few days and I haven't seen any since.

Please do report back with any findings! :)

[cabbage]

I know that the decline in natural pollinators may well be a result of increased pesticide use - but it may also be caused by pests and diseases within the wild bee population (or insect population in general) i.e. it may or may not have a human origin.

If beekeeping is necessary for successful agriculture, it might not just be a recent necessity. I suspect that may be difficult to tell - beekeeping predates the modern farming era - in other words honey bees have been part of the pollinating mix in the UK for hundreds of years. Maybe we're growing the wrong kinds of crops now? Maybe there is some aspect of our treatment of honey bees that is the problem?[*] I don't know.

I have no problem with veganism as a balancing philosophy, or with people being vegan. I think my focus was more on the terms in which the debate was being conducted and whether the Vegan Society message was actually an appropriate one.

[*] If they are selected for docility then it may make them less efficient at polliniation