'Clit' is not a proper substitute term for the vagina When people say clit I don't think of the vagina either.
And yet, most people seem to recognize that 'balls' cannot be used as substitute terminology for 'cock' and 'dick' and 'penis.' Fantastic example!!
I'm trying to figure out the best way to describe the cock when it isn't erect, and I'm having difficulty. It just sort of...hangs there.*sigh* Flaccid..? I dunno *shrugs*
I think the nature of this post indicates my approach to writing sex scenes and why Complicity is labeled NC-17. Descriptive and highly detailed seem to be the watchwords. I just can't stand vague, flowery, misty sex scenes; they're so unrealistic. Sex is messy and raw and complicated and specific and should be written so, IMO. I get really confused when people are really vague, i'm all "what the hell when did that happen" or have to piece bits and pieces in my head and make stuff up to make it make sense to me.
I get confused, too, when sex scenes are really vague because they lose that sense of visceral immediacy which, IMO, is the hallmark of a hot sex scene. Without that, the sex scene is pointless and boring to me and I don't want to spend the time figuring out what the hell is going on. I mean, yes, sex is universal, so the goal of writing a sex scene should be to make it appeal specifically to the readers like how it appeals to the writer writing it. Otherwise, why bother writing it at all if you, the author, doesn't find it hot? That would just be going through the motions, no pun intended, and sticking a sex scene in there because it's expected resolution.
I wholeheartedly agree, clit and cunt are very different things. And I also remember this being explained in high school health class.
However, I did have a college-age kid whom I supervise ask me, just before the holidays, if you can get HIV by having "regular sex" (as opposed to "gay sex"-- his term, not mine.) I was totally flabbergasted that he wouldn't have learned that in health class. But then, he went to a swanky private school. Who knows.
All this talk is making me very eager for the next chaps of Complicity, though. And is that scene with them on the roof (that's posted as a 'coming soon' in the Complicity memories) ever going to see the light of day?
Yes, I understand that some people that had private school educations don't get sex ed, but we're talking about people, specifically women, that have purportedly had sex before and still may not realize that clit and cunt are not equal and interchangeable terms. That rather boggles my mind.
And is that scene with them on the roof (that's posted as a 'coming soon' in the Complicity memories) ever going to see the light of day? Yup, definitely. In fact, I've reworked it a bit so that when the final version of that scene is posted, it will be even more descriptive. I read over the rough version recently and found it too vague for my personal taste. Heh.
I don't think it's that that people think that the clit and the cunt are the same thing. It's that, when there's a scene that refers specifically to female genitalia, the clit is by and away the most common piece of equipment that's going to be referenced. I mean, that's going to be the focus of any oral sex. That's where the orgasm's coming from. (Or possibly the g-spot, as well, which would be referred to as such rather than a more generic term like vagina.) Because, when you really think about it, the vagina is more an empty space than a concrete thing, which makes it hard to refer to in substantive terms. 'Vaginal walls,' you'll hear a lot, but not vagina so much.
At least that's how I've always viewed the situation. The vagina itself isn't so significant, except in the moment of penetration. The clit is the real focus down there.
I follow your train of thought, but I think the vagina is very significant and some women don't always require clitoral stimulation to achieve orgasm and other women do but vaginal stimulation, particularly the friction that is caused by the movements of the cock in the vagina, is also necessary. I don't think the clitoris is the end all and be all of female orgasm with regards to the genitalia of women. I definitely know from experience that it often isn't for me and several of my female friends that I've discussed it with
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My confusion arises out of the idea of sex scenes where the author, from the context, is definitely referring to the vagina but uses 'clit' instead as a viable substitute. It's just not the same thing at all.
I personally have only encountered two fics where the author has actually confused the clit and the vagina, so maybe we've just read different stuff. (And oh was "he entered her clit" painful. *shudder*) But the clit is often the thing that's being touched/prodded/whatever instead of the vagina in fic, because it's an easier thing to define (I mean, the vagina could be refering to the opening, or the muscles around it, the g-spot, the channel, etc., etc.) and the fact that, yeah, there's no good term for a vagina in fic without breaking it down into its subparts. So it's not that clit and vagina are being used interchangeablity, it's that sex scenes are written from the, er, clit's perspective instead because the terminology is just a whole lot easier. I think of it this way: If a fic says "he touched her clit," I know exactly
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But the clit is often the thing that's being touched/prodded/whatever instead of the vagina in fic, because it's an easier thing to defineYes and that is totally cool because I can understand it. Like the example you gave, if the line was 'he touched her clit,' I'm going to assume that he touched her clit, that he touched that specific part of the female genitalia, not that he touched her cunt/vagina. But then if from the rest of the scene and the context, it seems that the author did intend it to mean that he actually touched her cunt/vagina, I get confused and totally frustrated and taken out of the scene. There are really so many different parts to the female genitalia. Personally, I use 'cunt' to refer to the vagina opening + channel; 'clit' for the actual clitoris itself and itself only; 'folds' for the labia major (while I do write specific sex scenes, I generally don't distinguish between labia major and labia minor b/c I don't really talk about the labia minor--I think that's just going a bit overboard on the description and
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i am so with you on descriptive sex scenes. personally if you can't say it then you shouldn't write it. I prefer saying 'cock' over 'dick' and 'cunt' over 'pussy' but at least i can say them and not blush.
i remember smiling when i got response for my "glasses" fic when in the first paragraph sark says something to the effect of 'sucking my cock'...so many folks were shocked by that, but that was what was happening and so it made sense to say it like that!
i do wonder if many folks simply don't know that much about anatomy or are just trying to sugar coat it?
I just can't stand vague, flowery, misty sex scenes; they're so unrealistichere here!! and IMO completely unattractive. See I personally love reading about sex, writing about sex, and having sex
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I prefer cunt and cock over dick and pussy any day. Dick and pussy are, IMO, terms that immature young men use frequently. Cunt and cock less so, in my experience being around men.
when the guy can just go and go and go *rolls eyes*I agree that in some fanfics it can get a bit ridiculous, but some guys really have little refractory period. It, like sex in general, is a very personal and individual thing. Some men really can get hard again after a few minutes and even if they can't ejaculate (some men can, especially younger men in their twenties-early thirties), they can be hard again a mere minutes after just having orgasmed. If it's, like, twenty times in one night and the male character orgasms every time, I would be skeptical. But anywhere up to 5-7 times in one night? I personally think that could be within the bounds of reason. I dated a guy like that once. Frankly, it was exhausting. One of my female friends purposely seeks out men like that because she has much more stamina than I.*g
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well, I think on the safe sex issue, that fanfiction is a little more progressive. I mean, it is pretty darn rare that I read a human fiction that doesn't include safe sex. So maybe some of the message is getting through. Just not to the TV writers apparently. *g*
In a sense, I do understand about the lack of sex ed. My parents told me absolutely nothing about sex. When I was younger and asked them about it, trying to force 'the talk,' they told me I was too young and when I asked when they would tell me, they said never because I was never going to have sex if they could do anything about it.*g* My own mother, when I told her I got my period for the first time, frowned and welcomed me to a 'curse' that would visit me every month. And no, my parents are not religious fanatics or what have you, they're just very uncomfortable with those sorts of topics. My parents love their condo on Denial
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And also fanfic. I mean, how sad is that? Not sad at all. One of my biggest pet peeves is that the original fiction I like to read seems to consider itself too high-minded and literary to have descriptive and accurate sex scenes. A lot of the sex scenes in much of the literature I've read seems like filler and completely pointless in how unsexy and vague they are. Therefore, while it may seem laughable to some, I posit that fanfic, well-written fanfic with good/accurate/descriptive sex scenes provide a valuable public service and can educate people about sex. To be completely honest (and TMI) here, it was only after reading some really well-written, descriptive, and honestly portrayed m/f anal sex scenes in a few fanfics did I get over my 'OMG skeery, no!' attitude about anal sex and found the nerve to try it out in RL. I will always be grateful for those fanfics for teaching me that it's not scary, it's not depraved, it can feel really great, and relaxation/elevation/lube are good things when trying it out. :)
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When people say clit I don't think of the vagina either.
And yet, most people seem to recognize that 'balls' cannot be used as substitute terminology for 'cock' and 'dick' and 'penis.'
Fantastic example!!
I'm trying to figure out the best way to describe the cock when it isn't erect, and I'm having difficulty. It just sort of...hangs there.*sigh*
Flaccid..? I dunno *shrugs*
I think the nature of this post indicates my approach to writing sex scenes and why Complicity is labeled NC-17. Descriptive and highly detailed seem to be the watchwords. I just can't stand vague, flowery, misty sex scenes; they're so unrealistic. Sex is messy and raw and complicated and specific and should be written so, IMO.
I get really confused when people are really vague, i'm all "what the hell when did that happen" or have to piece bits and pieces in my head and make stuff up to make it make sense to me.
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However, I did have a college-age kid whom I supervise ask me, just before the holidays, if you can get HIV by having "regular sex" (as opposed to "gay sex"-- his term, not mine.) I was totally flabbergasted that he wouldn't have learned that in health class. But then, he went to a swanky private school. Who knows.
All this talk is making me very eager for the next chaps of Complicity, though. And is that scene with them on the roof (that's posted as a 'coming soon' in the Complicity memories) ever going to see the light of day?
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And is that scene with them on the roof (that's posted as a 'coming soon' in the Complicity memories) ever going to see the light of day?
Yup, definitely. In fact, I've reworked it a bit so that when the final version of that scene is posted, it will be even more descriptive. I read over the rough version recently and found it too vague for my personal taste. Heh.
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At least that's how I've always viewed the situation. The vagina itself isn't so significant, except in the moment of penetration. The clit is the real focus down there.
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I personally have only encountered two fics where the author has actually confused the clit and the vagina, so maybe we've just read different stuff. (And oh was "he entered her clit" painful. *shudder*) But the clit is often the thing that's being touched/prodded/whatever instead of the vagina in fic, because it's an easier thing to define (I mean, the vagina could be refering to the opening, or the muscles around it, the g-spot, the channel, etc., etc.) and the fact that, yeah, there's no good term for a vagina in fic without breaking it down into its subparts. So it's not that clit and vagina are being used interchangeablity, it's that sex scenes are written from the, er, clit's perspective instead because the terminology is just a whole lot easier. I think of it this way: If a fic says "he touched her clit," I know exactly ( ... )
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i remember smiling when i got response for my "glasses" fic when in the first paragraph sark says something to the effect of 'sucking my cock'...so many folks were shocked by that, but that was what was happening and so it made sense to say it like that!
i do wonder if many folks simply don't know that much about anatomy or are just trying to sugar coat it?
I just can't stand vague, flowery, misty sex scenes; they're so unrealistichere here!! and IMO completely unattractive. See I personally love reading about sex, writing about sex, and having sex ( ... )
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when the guy can just go and go and go *rolls eyes*I agree that in some fanfics it can get a bit ridiculous, but some guys really have little refractory period. It, like sex in general, is a very personal and individual thing. Some men really can get hard again after a few minutes and even if they can't ejaculate (some men can, especially younger men in their twenties-early thirties), they can be hard again a mere minutes after just having orgasmed. If it's, like, twenty times in one night and the male character orgasms every time, I would be skeptical. But anywhere up to 5-7 times in one night? I personally think that could be within the bounds of reason. I dated a guy like that once. Frankly, it was exhausting. One of my female friends purposely seeks out men like that because she has much more stamina than I.*g ( ... )
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Not sad at all. One of my biggest pet peeves is that the original fiction I like to read seems to consider itself too high-minded and literary to have descriptive and accurate sex scenes. A lot of the sex scenes in much of the literature I've read seems like filler and completely pointless in how unsexy and vague they are. Therefore, while it may seem laughable to some, I posit that fanfic, well-written fanfic with good/accurate/descriptive sex scenes provide a valuable public service and can educate people about sex. To be completely honest (and TMI) here, it was only after reading some really well-written, descriptive, and honestly portrayed m/f anal sex scenes in a few fanfics did I get over my 'OMG skeery, no!' attitude about anal sex and found the nerve to try it out in RL. I will always be grateful for those fanfics for teaching me that it's not scary, it's not depraved, it can feel really great, and relaxation/elevation/lube are good things when trying it out. :)
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