I hear where you're coming from. I've seen various opinions on this. No one wants it to be an empty gesture, no one denies that participating in such things is as good for the participant as it is for the campaign, but so what? If no one does anything, nothing ever gets done, right? What it all boils down to is that everyone deals with stuff in different ways, and isn't that what life is all about?
but so what? If no one does anything, nothing ever gets done, right?
Exactly. I'm still not sure what my real position on it is, but it probably comes down to 'every little bit counts'. Example: Just by wearing purple, or posting about it on their Facebook, there are now people in my life who I didn't know were friendly to LGB(T) issues before, but now I do. So some benefit, I guess!
*hugs back, because hugs are good, even though not sure what the hug is for, lol*
It's a very interesting point re. discrimination against trans folk. I used to volunteer on a GLBT phoneline. Almost no trans people ever phoned for support as many don't identify as gay or lesbian (and I know that's a wide field and also a can of worms . . .) So I think it's even more difficult for them to be heard given they may not have much in the way of allies.
Coincidentally, I read an interesting feature earlier about a journalist having his nomination for a Stonewall (UK gay pressure group) award withdrawn. He'd written a sympathetic feature about a gay rugby player, but had poked fun in the past at trans folk. the feature is here.
*nods* I can't say I'm surprised. There is that, of course, what you mention. And then there's the fact - which I've seen reflected more lately/considered some, in my guise as a mod on a beta-forum for GenderFork - that just because a phoneline or something advertises itself as LGBT (usually just said 'gay' or 'gay and lesbian') friendly, it doesn't necessarily mean they actually are trans friendly - something I suspect many transfolk are keenly aware of.
Hunh! Interesting, thanks for the link, I'll go take a look.
I really don't like the singling out of gay teens being bullied as if it's somehow automatically worse than any other kind of bullying. I think we should examine bullying as a whole. Because while there are different degrees of bullying, it is the severity of the bullying that differentiates them, not that excuse. If you've been bullied to the point of being suicidal does it really matter whether it's because they bully uses your sexuality as the catalyst rather than your hair colour or your family's income or whatever? I'm not trying to downplay the issue of homophobia, but if you're being bullied you really don't need the media implying that it's somehow not as important or not as bad because the bullies aren't tormenting you about your sexuality
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I really don't like the singling out of gay teens being bullied as if it's somehow automatically worse than any other kind of bullying. I agree. Bullying itself is definitely just a generally horrible thing.
I do think, though, that the thing with singling out specifically homophobic bullying is that it very often does become the more severe bullying and it is one of the few things that is greatly compounded by general societal attitudes. Poor? Well, you can become rich. Hair colour? There's hair dye for that (or appreciation for different hair colours... although I must say, being bullied for being ginger isn't something I've ever seen in my part of the world!). Gay? You get screaming religious madmen and constant jokes/references even when you're not being bullied.
And we seriously need to do something about the attitude to bullies in the west. Agree with this, too. Especially what you say about 'once they're over 7, etc'.
We need to make it so that if a kid iss a bully the other kids, the bystanders stand up and say no this is
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The other thing about singling out homophobic bullying is it seems a slightly odd message to be trying to send - we need to stop homophobic bullying... gives the underlying implication that bullying for other reasons is OK or that the bullies aren't as nasty. A simple 'we need to stop bullying' seems to make more sense. And if we're aiming the campaign at kids, then clearer is better
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Hmm. See, I'm not getting that message. Really not getting the 'underlying implication that bullying for other reasons is OK'. That might be because the area I come from, there has been a lot of anti-bullying stuff for a little while now - although I gather from certain places I am online that it isn't the same in the States, at least. To me, the focus on homophobic bullying is focusing the message more on homophobia than on bullying. Probably partly because I do have that assumption that people have been looking at anti-bullying stuff already and probably partly because homophobia rather concerns me a little more directly than other types of bullying (which I've basically outgrown).
then again if you're the kind of person who thinks filming two people having sex without their consent and then broadcasting it is acceptable you may be beyond help. Really though. :/ That particular incident was more disgusting than usual.
Not that you can ever end bullying completely, but you can make it socially unacceptable. Indeed. And I also agree
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I had another friend who brought this up today. Pasting in what I commented to her:
Generally speaking, I find a lot of the token "awareness-raising" stuff to be pointless and actually counter-productive in a way. For instance, all the damned pink breast cancer stuff. Yes, folks, some of us had no idea this was a problem, so thanks for the endless reminders
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Hee! Your last two paragraphs of your quote there sound pretty much like the premise of the 'Safe Spaces' effort. I definitely agree - and with the 'can actually benefit from a little generic attention like this', especially. (Although on the topic of breast cancer... what bugs me most, is how women have co-opted it. Yes, they are the most numerous victims, but men get it too! Rrng.)
, I could see it making a big difference in spaces where bullying is frequent to have an identifiable person or two for a victim to seek out for protection and support. Yes, definitely. My high school wasn't the most queer-friendly one on the planet (to put it mildly, in reference to the student body, especially those just coming from junior high). But they had a sort of 'Friendly' program, where teachers who were queer friendly could put stickers on their doors saying so. And even just that little effort helped.
The people who get picked on the most in school? Effeminate boys and fat girls. (And for the latter, the abuse basically never stops.) Yes.
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I wore purple as a gesture. It's not an activist stand for me, it's honoring those who have taken their own lives because the world, at large, chooses not to accept them
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And I just reread that and realized I, like you, apparently have warring opinions inside my head on the subject. Basically, it's messy, but I think it's a nice gesture, you know?
Yeah, I do know. It is a nice gesture, that's for sure. And was kinda awesome, that something like this could come out of the internet. But a gesture is... empty, often times. And there's the rub, aye?
I wore purple as a gesture. It's not an activist stand for me, it's honoring those who have taken their own lives because the world, at large, chooses not to accept them. And I'm totally cool with that. Its more or less why I wore purple too.
I don't think you're quite right about the term privilege and what it assumes/implies, but there's not much need to get into that here, really. Unless you want to, lol.
It happens and it happens everywhere it happens a lot and suicide from bullying, hell, bullying in general, just that, needs to end. That's how I feel about the Day of Purple/It Gets Better/Spirit Day. It should be a call to action. Definitely.
to address a point you made, how do you know people don't feel it every time it happens? (Only quoted that, but replying to whole paragraph
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*hug*
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Exactly. I'm still not sure what my real position on it is, but it probably comes down to 'every little bit counts'. Example: Just by wearing purple, or posting about it on their Facebook, there are now people in my life who I didn't know were friendly to LGB(T) issues before, but now I do. So some benefit, I guess!
*hugs back, because hugs are good, even though not sure what the hug is for, lol*
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Coincidentally, I read an interesting feature earlier about a journalist having his nomination for a Stonewall (UK gay pressure group) award withdrawn. He'd written a sympathetic feature about a gay rugby player, but had poked fun in the past at trans folk. the feature is here.
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Hunh! Interesting, thanks for the link, I'll go take a look.
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I do think, though, that the thing with singling out specifically homophobic bullying is that it very often does become the more severe bullying and it is one of the few things that is greatly compounded by general societal attitudes. Poor? Well, you can become rich. Hair colour? There's hair dye for that (or appreciation for different hair colours... although I must say, being bullied for being ginger isn't something I've ever seen in my part of the world!). Gay? You get screaming religious madmen and constant jokes/references even when you're not being bullied.
And we seriously need to do something about the attitude to bullies in the west. Agree with this, too. Especially what you say about 'once they're over 7, etc'.
We need to make it so that if a kid iss a bully the other kids, the bystanders stand up and say no this is ( ... )
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then again if you're the kind of person who thinks filming two people having sex without their consent and then broadcasting it is acceptable you may be beyond help. Really though. :/ That particular incident was more disgusting than usual.
Not that you can ever end bullying completely, but you can make it socially unacceptable. Indeed. And I also agree ( ... )
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Generally speaking, I find a lot of the token "awareness-raising" stuff to be pointless and actually counter-productive in a way. For instance, all the damned pink breast cancer stuff. Yes, folks, some of us had no idea this was a problem, so thanks for the endless reminders ( ... )
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, I could see it making a big difference in spaces where bullying is frequent to have an identifiable person or two for a victim to seek out for protection and support. Yes, definitely. My high school wasn't the most queer-friendly one on the planet (to put it mildly, in reference to the student body, especially those just coming from junior high). But they had a sort of 'Friendly' program, where teachers who were queer friendly could put stickers on their doors saying so. And even just that little effort helped.
The people who get picked on the most in school? Effeminate boys and fat girls. (And for the latter, the abuse basically never stops.) Yes. ( ... )
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And I'm totally cool with that. Its more or less why I wore purple too.
I don't think you're quite right about the term privilege and what it assumes/implies, but there's not much need to get into that here, really. Unless you want to, lol.
It happens and it happens everywhere it happens a lot and suicide from bullying, hell, bullying in general, just that, needs to end. That's how I feel about the Day of Purple/It Gets Better/Spirit Day. It should be a call to action.
Definitely.
to address a point you made, how do you know people don't feel it every time it happens? (Only quoted that, but replying to whole paragraph ( ... )
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