Pinning Down Those Butterfly Souls (Honesty in Asking for Feedback)--
I'm going to attempt to keep this relatively short because I really do have work to do, but I've been thinking about this for some time now, and I don't know, I think I just want to get it out there and out of my head. Warning up front, I'm not sure where I'm going with it or what my point is.
So. Feedback. The topic is continually bandied about, continually chewed over, and hell, I'm not that interested in talking about the usual crop of questions that go along with the whole big discussion in detail right now.
...Other than to say that I think readers have as much a right to critique and discuss stories among themselves as writers have to responsible, respectful feedback. Somewhere in here is my big long post where I come out against protecting the butterfly souls of new writers and how if you can't say anything nice, don't say it at all, but that will have to wait for another day. For now, I think there's a whole lot of responsibility that writers are shrugging off under the guise of fic headers that read: "Feedback: Yes, Please!" or something similar.
No, wait, I am going to touch on it, because it's important background and I've been meaning to talk about it for a while now.
Every so often, someone comes out against critical feedback for fan writers. Sometimes it's about being kind to the new writers who haven't found their feet, sometimes it's about where constructive criticism should come in (the consensus seems to be at the beta stage, but what if a writer doesn't use a beta? what if the beta hasn't quite done her job?), and sometimes it's about fandom as "fun"; don't ruin it for others. All of these conversations, though, seem to rapidly descend into murky waters where concrit becomes conflated with flames and mocking.
So let's set that aside right up front. I'm not talking about flames and mocking communities. They are an entirely separate issue and need to be treated as such.
In fact, let's set aside discussion of a fic outside of communication directly to the writer altogether; that muddies the waters further, because it seems to me to carry an edge of judgment with it where writers get to decide how and what constitutes appropriate modes of "having fun" in fandom. It's not a pyramid. The writers aren't on top, and they shouldn't be able to hand down edicts from on high.
So I'm not talking about flames, and I'm certainly not talking about general discussion of a fic among readers. (Lord knows I've been bitten on the ass over that last one before. Sheesh. ...As a reader, not a writer, in case you're wondering.)
So what is it I'm talking about? Constructive criticism that is at least handed out in the spirit of fair play, whether it hits its mark or not.
See, I'm one of those people that honestly has a block against the idea that writers of any caliber wouldn't want to learn and improve. I don't understand the cry, "But it's just for fun!" because part of what makes writing fun for me is attempting to make my next piece of work better than the last. I realize that my experience is not all experience, however, and that's something that needs to be taken into account.
But there are stories I've written and released into fandom that people have told me they've enjoyed that make me distinctly uncomfortable, to the point where it is only sheer stubbornness and force of will that keeps me from going back and ripping them down. That, and a small bit of pride in being able to trace how I got from there to here (and really, sometimes "there" is a lot closer to "here" than I'm comfortable with). I like the fact that my writing evolves, theoretically gets tighter and better over time. I'd be disappointed if it was static and I was still writing the same blush-inducing Doggy Sue*-type story that announced my first step into fan fiction.
And I know that I don't improve on my own. If I don't get concrit from somewhere, if I don't have some sort of outside influences to draw on, I'm not going to get any better. Or at least, I'm not going to get better at any appreciable pace.
I think that the idea that if you can't say something nice you shouldn't give any feedback at all has put a gag order on fic writing fandoms, so much so that even responsible, respectable comments, ones that are meant to gently direct or even simply discuss things have been driven underground. That Feedback field, the one that trumpets, "Oh yes, any fb, PLEASE!" is a liar. As a reader, it's much safer to simply stay silent or only dish out happy squishy fb, because if you stick out your neck and say something that could even be interpreted slightly less than positively, there's a good chance your head is going to end up on the floor.
And this is my point of contention. We've talked over and over and over again about the reader's responsibility to be respectful, careful and kind, but what about the writer? This needs to be a shared venture, and so far, I'm not seeing a lot of people making writers responsible for the types of feedback they want.
I realize, of course, that this requires a touch of brutal honesty that many people may not be ready for; it seems to me, however, that if you as a writer do not buck up and think about what exactly you are comfortable hearing, then someone else is going to step in and do it for you. It'll be a rude awakening, I guarantee it.
I could give you examples, tell you about the woman I knew (and at the time cherished deeply) who used to complain to me for hours and hours at a time about how no one would give her real, honest, true constructive criticism; it was all either unremitting praise or damnation. I could tell you about what happened when I finally caved and gave her the concrit she claimed she was looking for, or what happened later, when, after I'd learned my lesson, I turned her over to a trusted friend for the same purpose and saw the same result.
I could tell you about the number of times I've acted as a beta reader** for people who have then ignored my suggestions entirely, citing impatience, wanting to post now, or that they didn't care about their story that much, completely negating the 2+ hours of work I've put into helping them. I could tell you about the short list of people I will never, EVER beta for again***, and the one writer I beta'd for who was absolutely up front about being in this pretty much for fun only, and as a result grew tenfold in my estimation.
I could go (and indeed to some extent have gone) through all these things in more detail, but it all comes down to the same thing. These people are not taking responsibility for their own reactions. They are asking for one thing and expecting another.
This is the major problem with the idea that we need to nurture fan writers by providing positive interactions only. We need to be kind and careful, yes, but we do need to provide them with responsibility and agency as much as anything else.
I must say that I'm pretty peeved that because many writers are filling their feedback headers with lies and fabrications, when people read mine (which usually has some variation on "Feedback: Always appreciated"), they don't see what I'm saying. I am willing to take it all, up to and including flames. I may not agree with all the concrit provided, I may wonder if my readers are smoking crack, I may fillet flamers alive, but I want to hear it all. I want to know people are engaging with what I've written. I want that connection to the larger community, and I want it to be active and chaotic and messy and present.
So what I'd really like to see, what would make me incredibly happy and would probably clear up a heck of a lot of problems over what kind of feedback to give, is for writers to sit down, think long and hard about not only what they want but what they are equipped to deal with, and then be honest in their headers. I want to see headers that say "Feedback: Positive only, please. I'm still finding my feet/I need encouragement," or "Feedback: Give it to me hard. I can take it." I want to know where the lines are drawn so that I can engage fully with those who want it, and be respectful of those who do not.
I want to see real, true honesty, and I want it to be the toughest kind -- honesty with oneself.
And... Damn, I haven't even hit on what the original point was of this post yet, and I think the two issues are diverging too much to be explicitly linked together, so I'll roll the rest on over to another, separate post. So much for brevity, eh? *snicker* Or that whole "I have work to do" thing. *facepalm*
*Yes. I know how weird that sounds. My Mary Sue was a Doggy Sue. Which is not to say that I refigured myself as a canine, no. It was -- oh lord -- it was a story featuring an idealized version of my dog.
**I try to be pretty straightforward when I beta for someone for the first time, as I'm a multi-purpose beta reader (grammar, syntax, plot, characterization, structure, etc.). We almost always have the "what are you looking for from me?" conversation, because that gives me some sense of what the expectations are; left to my own devices, I'll get out my fine tooth comb and magnifying glass. That's not to say I'm a hardass; I think it's as important to point out what works as what doesn't. I also don't believe people need to blindly follow my advice and do everything I say. They are suggestions, not rules or laws.
***If you think I'm referring to you here, you're almost guaranteed to be wrong, so no worries, ok? I do actually mean it when I say, "Anytime! I had fun/was glad to be able to help."
So. Feedback. The topic is continually bandied about, continually chewed over, and hell, I'm not that interested in talking about the usual crop of questions that go along with the whole big discussion in detail right now.
...Other than to say that I think readers have as much a right to critique and discuss stories among themselves as writers have to responsible, respectful feedback. Somewhere in here is my big long post where I come out against protecting the butterfly souls of new writers and how if you can't say anything nice, don't say it at all, but that will have to wait for another day. For now, I think there's a whole lot of responsibility that writers are shrugging off under the guise of fic headers that read: "Feedback: Yes, Please!" or something similar.
No, wait, I am going to touch on it, because it's important background and I've been meaning to talk about it for a while now.
Every so often, someone comes out against critical feedback for fan writers. Sometimes it's about being kind to the new writers who haven't found their feet, sometimes it's about where constructive criticism should come in (the consensus seems to be at the beta stage, but what if a writer doesn't use a beta? what if the beta hasn't quite done her job?), and sometimes it's about fandom as "fun"; don't ruin it for others. All of these conversations, though, seem to rapidly descend into murky waters where concrit becomes conflated with flames and mocking.
So let's set that aside right up front. I'm not talking about flames and mocking communities. They are an entirely separate issue and need to be treated as such.
In fact, let's set aside discussion of a fic outside of communication directly to the writer altogether; that muddies the waters further, because it seems to me to carry an edge of judgment with it where writers get to decide how and what constitutes appropriate modes of "having fun" in fandom. It's not a pyramid. The writers aren't on top, and they shouldn't be able to hand down edicts from on high.
So I'm not talking about flames, and I'm certainly not talking about general discussion of a fic among readers. (Lord knows I've been bitten on the ass over that last one before. Sheesh. ...As a reader, not a writer, in case you're wondering.)
So what is it I'm talking about? Constructive criticism that is at least handed out in the spirit of fair play, whether it hits its mark or not.
See, I'm one of those people that honestly has a block against the idea that writers of any caliber wouldn't want to learn and improve. I don't understand the cry, "But it's just for fun!" because part of what makes writing fun for me is attempting to make my next piece of work better than the last. I realize that my experience is not all experience, however, and that's something that needs to be taken into account.
But there are stories I've written and released into fandom that people have told me they've enjoyed that make me distinctly uncomfortable, to the point where it is only sheer stubbornness and force of will that keeps me from going back and ripping them down. That, and a small bit of pride in being able to trace how I got from there to here (and really, sometimes "there" is a lot closer to "here" than I'm comfortable with). I like the fact that my writing evolves, theoretically gets tighter and better over time. I'd be disappointed if it was static and I was still writing the same blush-inducing Doggy Sue*-type story that announced my first step into fan fiction.
And I know that I don't improve on my own. If I don't get concrit from somewhere, if I don't have some sort of outside influences to draw on, I'm not going to get any better. Or at least, I'm not going to get better at any appreciable pace.
I think that the idea that if you can't say something nice you shouldn't give any feedback at all has put a gag order on fic writing fandoms, so much so that even responsible, respectable comments, ones that are meant to gently direct or even simply discuss things have been driven underground. That Feedback field, the one that trumpets, "Oh yes, any fb, PLEASE!" is a liar. As a reader, it's much safer to simply stay silent or only dish out happy squishy fb, because if you stick out your neck and say something that could even be interpreted slightly less than positively, there's a good chance your head is going to end up on the floor.
And this is my point of contention. We've talked over and over and over again about the reader's responsibility to be respectful, careful and kind, but what about the writer? This needs to be a shared venture, and so far, I'm not seeing a lot of people making writers responsible for the types of feedback they want.
I realize, of course, that this requires a touch of brutal honesty that many people may not be ready for; it seems to me, however, that if you as a writer do not buck up and think about what exactly you are comfortable hearing, then someone else is going to step in and do it for you. It'll be a rude awakening, I guarantee it.
I could give you examples, tell you about the woman I knew (and at the time cherished deeply) who used to complain to me for hours and hours at a time about how no one would give her real, honest, true constructive criticism; it was all either unremitting praise or damnation. I could tell you about what happened when I finally caved and gave her the concrit she claimed she was looking for, or what happened later, when, after I'd learned my lesson, I turned her over to a trusted friend for the same purpose and saw the same result.
I could tell you about the number of times I've acted as a beta reader** for people who have then ignored my suggestions entirely, citing impatience, wanting to post now, or that they didn't care about their story that much, completely negating the 2+ hours of work I've put into helping them. I could tell you about the short list of people I will never, EVER beta for again***, and the one writer I beta'd for who was absolutely up front about being in this pretty much for fun only, and as a result grew tenfold in my estimation.
I could go (and indeed to some extent have gone) through all these things in more detail, but it all comes down to the same thing. These people are not taking responsibility for their own reactions. They are asking for one thing and expecting another.
This is the major problem with the idea that we need to nurture fan writers by providing positive interactions only. We need to be kind and careful, yes, but we do need to provide them with responsibility and agency as much as anything else.
I must say that I'm pretty peeved that because many writers are filling their feedback headers with lies and fabrications, when people read mine (which usually has some variation on "Feedback: Always appreciated"), they don't see what I'm saying. I am willing to take it all, up to and including flames. I may not agree with all the concrit provided, I may wonder if my readers are smoking crack, I may fillet flamers alive, but I want to hear it all. I want to know people are engaging with what I've written. I want that connection to the larger community, and I want it to be active and chaotic and messy and present.
So what I'd really like to see, what would make me incredibly happy and would probably clear up a heck of a lot of problems over what kind of feedback to give, is for writers to sit down, think long and hard about not only what they want but what they are equipped to deal with, and then be honest in their headers. I want to see headers that say "Feedback: Positive only, please. I'm still finding my feet/I need encouragement," or "Feedback: Give it to me hard. I can take it." I want to know where the lines are drawn so that I can engage fully with those who want it, and be respectful of those who do not.
I want to see real, true honesty, and I want it to be the toughest kind -- honesty with oneself.
And... Damn, I haven't even hit on what the original point was of this post yet, and I think the two issues are diverging too much to be explicitly linked together, so I'll roll the rest on over to another, separate post. So much for brevity, eh? *snicker* Or that whole "I have work to do" thing. *facepalm*
*Yes. I know how weird that sounds. My Mary Sue was a Doggy Sue. Which is not to say that I refigured myself as a canine, no. It was -- oh lord -- it was a story featuring an idealized version of my dog.
**I try to be pretty straightforward when I beta for someone for the first time, as I'm a multi-purpose beta reader (grammar, syntax, plot, characterization, structure, etc.). We almost always have the "what are you looking for from me?" conversation, because that gives me some sense of what the expectations are; left to my own devices, I'll get out my fine tooth comb and magnifying glass. That's not to say I'm a hardass; I think it's as important to point out what works as what doesn't. I also don't believe people need to blindly follow my advice and do everything I say. They are suggestions, not rules or laws.
***If you think I'm referring to you here, you're almost guaranteed to be wrong, so no worries, ok? I do actually mean it when I say, "Anytime! I had fun/was glad to be able to help."