'Bama'? Oh, please... (pun not intended)

[cavgirl]

 Major eye-rolling in progress after watching Obama's attempts to prove he's Irish. Really, no. Just... no. I don't care if his grandmother/great grandmother/random other rellie was Irish - doesn't make him Irish. Then again, the people of Moneygall didn't seem to care, so why should I?

I was also enormously amused by the coverage of the Queen's

Comments

[hollywobbles]

Hee, it's a fairly normal American thing to try to cling to your ethic roots, no matter how far removed or how small a percentage they compose. Brings you a sense of closeness with your past and a sense of history, which is nice and something people often long for in a country that's only a couple hundred years old. ;) I think that's why Irish music does so well over here.

[cavgirl]

Oh, I know - it's just seems rather weird this side of the pond. Especially when you have conversations that go:
'You're Irish, aren't you?'
'Yep.'
'Awesome! So am I!'
'Really? Whereabouts?'
'Oh, not me, my greatx10 granny was Irish...'

Normally I just ignore it, but Obama's 'O'Bama' jokes struck me as ridiculous/trying too hard. Then again, that's just me! I find American attitudes to history and the British Isles in particular incredibly bamboozling at times. I was reading an otherwise excellent Doctor Who fic the other day that was set in the 18th c and it set my teeth on edge because the whole tone of it was 'omg, if the American Revolution doesn't happen Europe will never experience democracy!' which is an absurdly simplistic reading of the period. Never to mention plain insulting to Europeans - democracy is a European concept, after all!

[hollywobbles]

Hee, yeah, as somadanne said, it's short for "of ___ descent," and we put it that way so naturally that it didn't occur to me that other people wouldn't realize that's what we mean. ;) For example, when someone asks me "what are you?" in that context, I always answer "oh, I'm English, German, Scottish, Swedish, Swiss, Norwegian, and a few other things I can't remember," (or I say, jokingly, that I'm a "European mutt"). ;) If I'm referring to just one country, I generally say I'm "part German" or whatever, though, so people don't get confused.

I think I'd be clearer about it if I were in Europe talking to a European, but if I were giving a speech in a context where everyone knew perfectly well I was American, I don't think it would occur to me to word it any differently than Obama did. As you said, separated by a common language -- and they're fun differences to discover. ;)

[cavgirl]

I think that 'What are you?' is the crucial difference. We wouldn't, as a rule, ask that in the UK. It'd be 'Where are you from?' which is a much more direct question, and less open to ambiguous answers - because very few people here are interested in what their grandparents were, even though we can be patchworks too. My parents cross the Protestant-Catholic divide, so I have English, Ulster Scots, and Irish in my background, but we rarely distinguish them.

[somadanne]

Like hollywobbles already explained, it's a very American cultural thing to be aware of where your family came from--it's something that's important to a lot of people here. It's just a different way of viewing things.

So yes, having Irish ancestry does make Obama Irish (short for "of Irish descent") in the eyes of Americans. The "O'Bama" joke is actually pretty funny if you consider all the guff he's taken for having the Kenyan name "Obama" ... just sayin'. And on St. Patrick's day, lots of people make jokes like that.

If someone asks, I will claim my Irish ancestry (among others). The Irish part is unique in that I could actually get an Irish passport "by right of descent" if I bothered to do the paperwork.

[cavgirl]

I'm aware of it - I had an American housemate for a year, and she explained and it makes perfect sense, in a very American way. It makes sort of sense in the context of recent relatives, or if, as you say, you say 'of Irish descent'. Where it becomes strange is when people claim to be Irish (ie, sounding as if they really ARE Irish) when in fact they mean that a relative x number of generations was Irish, but I suppose it makes more sense if it's seen as shorthand. Yet another example of Americans and Brits being divided by the bond of a common language...

[ex_signmypa]

I need to post the Obama bread we found in Ireland. It was hilarious. Thankfully no one was interested in him over there while we were there (some polite people told us he was coming, but the moment they found out we were true blooded Socialists, they sighed a sigh of relief and we discussed more interesting topics). I may assume people in Dublin were more interested in him, but the locals in co. Donegal thought it was sort of ridiculous.

I'm proud to say I was in Dublin when she was in Dublin! And we narily escaped a bus that had a bomb on it! It was fun sitting in the airport watching the local news cover her every move (and every move Dublin made); I really need to get my write up done (and post pictures!), I'm just so exhausted and busy.

And yes, it's very normal for Americans to cling to their ethnic roots, however, when you're 1/32 that's pushing it. I'm half Swedish, half Jewish/German, third generation American and my grandparent's first language is Yiddish and I am most certainly American.

[cavgirl]

LOL - welcome to Ireland. Well, that's not fair - I don't think the ROI have had that much bomb trouble lately apart from last week. Up here, though, it's becoming a fact of life again - eerie how quickly you get used to it once more. Then again, my generation grew up during the Troubles. Those who were born post '94 or so have been rather more bemused.

[princessanna1]

This aspect of American culture always amuses me. I nearly came to (metaphorical) blows with somebody online who swore blind he was Irish, yet it turned out his Irish ancestor had emigrated in the 1840s (potato famine escapee, I assume).

When I went to America I was asked such a question. Luckily my grandma is Scottish and my dad was born in Scotland and lived there until he was 9, although he doesn't consider himself Scottish. When pushed further I had to go right back and dig up a Cornish great great grandfather. That was the best I could do. Not such a mongrel after all, although I'm sure if I could go futher back I'd find Norman, Danish, Anglo Saxon and Celtic in my family tree!!!!

[cavgirl]

LOL! That's so funny.... really illustrates the differences though, doesn't it? It's an aspect of US culture that amuses, bamboozles and sometimes annoys me by turn.

[astreamofstars]

I'd kinda love to know more about where my family originated from, but the genealogy we've done so far just seems to show that they're all English farm labourers on my dad's side, and English mill workers on my mum's side. I'm sure there probably are some relatives from elsewhere, but we haven't found any yet. I was hoping for Vikings!

I think my surname might indicate that that side of the family was originally French, which is a bit more interesting, at least, but it was probably Norman French, which is therefore stretching it slightly to say I am of French descent. Dammit.

[cavgirl]

Never to mention being nearly a thousand years... more to the point, if your name is distinctively French, you can be snooty and say you came over with William the Conqueror. One of my English teachers at school did; he was relentlessly snobby towards the Royal Family because 'they've only been here 200 years and they're German...'. Was funny. I think there was a touch of don't-mention-the-war prejudice there too. It's odd how that lingers. My family were astonished when I said after Mannheim that I really liked Germany and wanted to go back; they've been around huge swathes of Europe, but it would never have occurred to them to visit Germany.

[astreamofstars]

I don't even know that it is French. I'm just assuming it's a bastardised French name. Could be something completely different!

LOL about your teacher. My surname is actually the same as that of one of the one time Queens of England, so I often pretend (with no real justification) to have royal connections that way.

I like Germany! My parents lived over there for a few years, and it's a lovely country.

[cavgirl]

OK... you've roused my royal-history-geek instincts. French, surname of a Queen of England... Heh. Hmm, Valois? D'Angouleme? D'Anjou? Beaufort (if you squint)? Grey - although it's not terribly French... Lyons/Lyon? - although that's recent, and you did say Queen of *England*... Boleyn or a variation thereof?