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Comments 25

rj_anderson February 25 2008, 02:30:40 UTC
I knew I loved Ophelia right from that "ungracious pastors" speech. As you say, she's smarter than her thickity thick thick family give her credit for, and yet so mercilessly overruled by them. Agh! This whole section makes me want to spit nails.

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cesario February 25 2008, 06:24:58 UTC
Poor lamb, she's smarter than anyone gives her credit for, in the play or out of it, seems like. One becomes very frustrated on her behalf.

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angevin2 February 25 2008, 06:28:54 UTC
Frances Barber wrote about playing Ophelia in Players of Shakespeare 2 and one of the things she said that stuck with me is that she felt like the best compliment she got on her performance was when someone told her he wished that her Hamlet had just told Ophelia what was up, because she'd probably have known what to do. I think that Ophelia totally should be like that.

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cesario February 25 2008, 06:52:31 UTC
YES YES YES YES. HOLY CRAP. Ophelia was cautious and sensible and compassionate and could TOTALLY have helped. And it's not even really Hamlet's fault for not confiding in her, because...well, I think he probably would have liked to, that may well have been what he wanted to do when he ran in on her and freaked her out that time. ARGH.

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swordlily February 25 2008, 03:44:19 UTC
Poor Ophelia. I haven't encountered much discussion of her in my own Shakespeare classes, outside of the general consensus that she was so dominated by the male figures in her life, that after they were gone she fractured due to having nothing more to base her identity on. I had one professor in particular who habitually referred to her as the weakest woman in Shakespeare, which irritated me to no end.

once she goes mad everyone listens to her

Oh man. That line is so true it brought tears to my eyes.

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cesario February 25 2008, 06:29:10 UTC
It is easy to overlook her significance, but I figure, Shakespeare's greatest creation was in love with her, she can't be a cypher.

And anyone who thinks she's weak isn't paying attention. When she goes mad, she becomes a virtual powerhouse. Doomed, but riveting as Rosalind in all her glory.

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angevin2 February 25 2008, 06:26:58 UTC
"I am using this key metaphor so that neither one of us will have to examine your 'chaste treasure' line too closely."

Yeah, because lock/key imagery is really useful when you want to avoid innuendo. ;)

This is an excellent post, though. I like the thing that you bring in with privacy, because surveillance is such a huge thing in the play. It's one of the things I love about Branagh's film that he really got that, what with all the secret passages and halls of mirrors and confessionals -- although that's sort of dodgy for me to say, as a Catholic, but it's a very early modern sensibility (doesn't Branagh put some of this scene in the chapel with its very visible confessional?), since early modern Protestants tended to freak out about the potential for surveillance it afforded. And of course Ophelia's body is a site of surveillance, like female bodies always are in patriarchal societies ( ... )

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cesario February 25 2008, 07:01:35 UTC
There are a lot of things that I love about Branagh's Hamlet, and the set is chief among them. It's claustrophobic and huge at the same time.

Ophelia...it would be easy for a bored critic to dismiss her as lacking agency, but I think it's fairly clear that she possess a degree of suppressed agency, which is not at all the same thing as not having it. The fact that she is at everyone's mercy makes it easy for readers to overlook her, but you notice that when she goes mad she baffles and frightens them as much as she does Gertrude and Claudius.

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angevin2 February 25 2008, 09:28:15 UTC
Absolutely, yes.

I think it's telling how she keeps saying "I pray you, mark" (or some variation thereof) during the mad scene. Like, "FOR ONCE, LISTEN TO ME" -- and they do. I forgot to mention before, I really liked your observation about how Ophelia's first line is an unanswered question, and I think that ties into it.

Anent Branagh's film, I think the image that sums up Kate Winslet's Ophelia is the part where she's being hosed down, and then after they turn the hose off she takes the key out of her mouth. Overlooked, suppressed agency -- that can only be expressed in a self-destructive manner.

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lizbee February 25 2008, 09:48:11 UTC
It has just occurred to me that my relationship with my father is very much like Ophelia's with Polonius. Well, shit.

I'm very glad you're doing this, because it's helping me articulate why I love Ophelia so much. She's not stupid, she's just hampered by the stupidity of every. single. person. in. Denmark. (Her and Horatio -- Ophelia/Horatio shippers have a point, if those two got together, they could take over the world.) I mean, no wonder she goes mad, all that potential suppressed by everyone around her.

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cesario February 25 2008, 10:37:08 UTC
I was actually just contemplating a Hamlet/Ophelia/Horatio scenario this evening...

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lizbee February 25 2008, 10:38:01 UTC
This whole Shakespeare project is really just an elaborate excuse to write porn, isn't it?

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cesario February 25 2008, 10:47:56 UTC
Hah, just wait till we get to Twelfth Night.

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lareinenoire February 25 2008, 18:24:53 UTC
More to the point, however, I don't think it MATTERS.

No, it completely does not matter. What matters is the possibility that she might have slept with Hamlet, which condemns her straight out. This happens in Much Ado, and with even direr consequences in Othello.

And I completely agree with the fact that people start listening to Ophelia when she goes mad. Because all of a sudden, she's scaring the living hell out of them at least in part because I think they realise she's telling the truth and has no compunction about it. I do remember loving Kate Winslet's performance in the Branagh Hamlet for how forceful she was.

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cesario February 26 2008, 00:27:25 UTC
Kate Winslet's Ophelia is brilliant, yes. Never saw a better. Not that I've seen a bunch, but, you know.

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