This was really interesting to read, but as this is my least favorite Disney movie for many of these reasons, I must disagree. I am aware of her wanting to be part of the human world, but the way it's written later on severely bothers me, and would regardless of her gender.... I definitely wouldn't think of a male character who I see as that foolish as being so great, heroic guy. ... and as someone who is "rebellious" and doesn't get along with my parents, I just find her actions grating and... not well reasoned
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Hm... that's interesting! To be honest, I don't really think there is any deep reason for Ariel wanting to be human, but at the same time, I don't really think there needs to be? The way I see her character is that she's got severe culture envy, similar to an Anglophile or a weeaboo or what have you. She comes off as basically "a human in a mermaid body", which, I mean, isn't exactly the peak of maturity but at the same time, as someone who knows people who have random obsessions or collecting-type hobbies (and heck, I have them myself) I can definitely understand the behavior. Maybe this is influenced by my life experiences / where I am in my life but I think it's important to have fulfillment in life, wherever that fulfillment comes from, and regardless of how immature Ariel's hobbies are or how short-sighted her dreams are, they DO give her fulfillment.
Ursula doesn't entice Ariel with becoming human to escape her father (this is never mentioned from what I recall) or her own societyYou have a point, "Poor Unfortunate Souls" is
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Besides, her sea creature friends are loving and care for her, but she betrays their wishes as well.Could you expand on this a bit (the betrayal part, I mean
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Yes, but there's a bit of a difference between collecting (which is fine) and what she eventually does. XD It's like... hmm, there are European countries I'd likely fit in better than I would here (liberal, metal-loving countries where it's considered normal to be introverted? Hell yes), but I don't think my collection of Scandinavian metal albums is really going to prepare me for life in Norway... especially if I don't buy a better coat first. I'd want to be sure I had a good enough handle on the language first, study the cultural norms more beforehand, etc. In Ariel's case (assuming books on human culture don't just fall into the sea), I would've spied on human society more before actually joining them. She just got really, really lucky she wasn't locked up on insanity charges for doing things like brushing her hair with a fork... which definitely wouldn't have fulfilled her life much, since it was a huge risk for something she knew very little about. I don't think there's anything wrong with being a weaboo or something, so long as
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- I know! I was really shocked when I saw that opening sequence because she seriously dealt with that shark without being the slightest bit shaken. It's like, ho hum, just another day
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Oh, wow! I really liked reading this post! You know, back when we were little, this was Yin's favorite movie. I think she made us watch the sucker 50,000 times, lolz. I liked it, but when I got older I wasn't sure how I felt about it...and then seeing all the criticism it receives online made me think that maybe I was remembering it wrong. But, this post makes me think I wasn't remembering it wrong at all (maybe I just got jaded with it, lolz!). I really enjoyed reading your thoughts, and I agree with a lot of your points! XD
You know, back when we were little, this was Yin's favorite movie. I think she made us watch the sucker 50,000 times, lolz. Lol, that sounds like a very Late 80s/Early 90s Kid thing to say. XD
To be honest, I actually didn't watch the movie all that much when I was young (I mean, I must have seen it at least a few times, but I never owned it on VHS). Given its reputation on the internet, I was actually really surprised seeing what kind of character Ariel was when I watched it for real in college -- no one ever told me how tomboyish Ariel was or how persevering. It's like the only thing people remember are the song sequences (which I guess makes sense, if you think about it).
I really don't like the movie so I didn't expect to agree with your points (I mean.. I just really dislike almost everything about it) but you make a lot of sense and made me see some things from a different perspective. I never disliked the movie, or Ariel herself for reasons you mentioned. I did think it was a little... weird for her to fall so fast for him and all but I will talk about it a bit later. Anyways, it's an old Disney movies, it's mostly aimed at kids. I think that disliking her solely because she picked a guy over her family and such is a bit unfair for many reasons? Especially considering she was a teenager who wasn't mature to begin with. First of all, back then the whole "strong woman" concept wasn't as popular as it is these days and it's obvious people make things that will sell. I don't know how popular, loved or hated the movie was years ago but seeing as older princesses aren't as independent as the ones that appeared a little later makes me think it just wasn't a popular concept or something people would "buy
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I will refrain from saying my overall opinion on Ariel (I actually agree more or less with Vanja on most things) but here is something I wanted to add to your discussion in the first thread. I don't think Ariel's actions can be explain with logic at all because that is something this girl lacks. In fact, to me her actions make sense which is actually why I dislike her. As in, to me Ariel is very naive and child-like so many of her actions just seem kind of normal for her personality? Complete opposite of what I think she would do, sure, but her personality is also completely different so while I don't like her, I would defend her when it comes to certain parts of the movie. Like, for example, her falling for Eric. With her fascination over the human world and humans themselves, not wanting to be a mermaid, and with her attitude towards things, impulsiveness and emotional personality... i wouldn't say it's very wrong or for her to be interested in him. I do think that calling it love is a bit too much as I would say it's just
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Yep I agree, the "strong woman" concept is pretty poorly defined, especially when "strong women" is used to refer to a subset of personalities or used only to refer to certain goals people consider acceptable. So... some personalities are "strong" and others are "weak"? That doesn't make sense.
And yeah, I think it's fair to criticize the princesses as a group, but when people start arguing "Princess X is such a bad role model because she relied on her Prince to save her or she didn't stand up to Person Y" then the argument starts not making sense because like... there's nothing intrinsically WRONG with any of that. There's only an issue when you see the same thing over and over again.
And yep, I think that's the core of it -- I don't think I would take the same actions Ariel did, but at the same time, it makes sense that she would react that way, and I find her character interesting.
To know things, you have to go through them usually or you just won't know if others were right, and even after one time you might not learn from
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I could be here for days, but I can't be. So, I'll try to pull out a few points. Overall I completely agree with your analysis. And, I might disagree on a few general points, I do agree that everything you've mentioned is valid critical points. They are points I can handle being brought up as opposed to the shallow points.
Also, I think there is valid criticism in that she ends up more dependent and passive after becoming human.
I can't say I see it as so much dependent and passive as much as a literal fish out of water type deal where she does need some support here and there. We still see her do a lot of things that she would do underwater (like take the reigns of the buggy, pull Eric around the town excitedly, and a few other things that are escaping my mind at the moment but that I know exist). I think the main place where she is more passive is the swimming thing like you mentioned. But...she does jump into the water and flail around briefly before Sebastian cuts the barrel down for her. For me, I think it means this was a
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Ursula doesn't entice Ariel with becoming human to escape her father (this is never mentioned from what I recall) or her own societyYou have a point, "Poor Unfortunate Souls" is ( ... )
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Besides, her sea creature friends are loving and care for her, but she betrays their wishes as well.Could you expand on this a bit (the betrayal part, I mean ( ... )
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Lol, that sounds like a very Late 80s/Early 90s Kid thing to say. XD
To be honest, I actually didn't watch the movie all that much when I was young (I mean, I must have seen it at least a few times, but I never owned it on VHS). Given its reputation on the internet, I was actually really surprised seeing what kind of character Ariel was when I watched it for real in college -- no one ever told me how tomboyish Ariel was or how persevering. It's like the only thing people remember are the song sequences (which I guess makes sense, if you think about it).
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And yeah, I think it's fair to criticize the princesses as a group, but when people start arguing "Princess X is such a bad role model because she relied on her Prince to save her or she didn't stand up to Person Y" then the argument starts not making sense because like... there's nothing intrinsically WRONG with any of that. There's only an issue when you see the same thing over and over again.
And yep, I think that's the core of it -- I don't think I would take the same actions Ariel did, but at the same time, it makes sense that she would react that way, and I find her character interesting.
To know things, you have to go through them usually or you just won't know if others were right, and even after one time you might not learn from ( ... )
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Also, I think there is valid criticism in that she ends up more dependent and passive after becoming human.
I can't say I see it as so much dependent and passive as much as a literal fish out of water type deal where she does need some support here and there. We still see her do a lot of things that she would do underwater (like take the reigns of the buggy, pull Eric around the town excitedly, and a few other things that are escaping my mind at the moment but that I know exist). I think the main place where she is more passive is the swimming thing like you mentioned. But...she does jump into the water and flail around briefly before Sebastian cuts the barrel down for her. For me, I think it means this was a ( ... )
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