Sorry about this... its political.... and my spelling sucks.
UPDATE: fixing some sourcing on stuff. Added source for the current troop levels in Iraq now vs start of the surge.
Some people seem to think Palin did well last night in the debate. I tend to disagree because she got may facts wrong and just answered questions with pre-packaged lines weather they fit or not.
here are some examples...
Obama voted to raise taxes on Americans earning more than $42k per year. Thats false. It was a non-binding resolution talking about tax cuts for the middle class while allowing tax hikes on people making well over $100k a year. [source: WaPo, Factcheck.org]
She said mcCain supports bankruptcy laws to help homeowners to avoid foreclosure. False. Today McCain spokesman Brian Rodgers today corrected her and said McCain does not sport courts or the government to alter or re-set the principle or rates. [Source: ABCnews.com]
On the surge she said troops are at pre-surge levels. False, there are still more troops in Iraq now then before the surge. As of the begining of last month there were 146,000 troops in Iraq with about 130,000 before the surge. Bush and the pentagon at that time announced 8,000 will be rotated out by Feb 2009... still leaving more then the 130k before the surge. [AP story "Bush to maintain Iraq troop levels until 2009" AP sept 9, 2008]
That Senator Obama denied the surge was a success. Mostly false, He said that the military tactic of the surge was "beyond [his] wildest dreams" a success but the goal was to ensure an environment in which the Iraqi government could work on making progress towards a stable safe state. There has been little progress on this front and even some backsliding with the Kurdish north now independently excersizing and entering into agreements with companies and foreign governments beyond their constitutional authority. [1st presidential debate, multiple times on the stump]
She said the Afghanistan commander says an Iraq style surge would work in Afghanistan after her opponent said he didn't. Palin was wrong, he said the posit and General Petraus [sp] agreed with that general's assessment, and even got the name of the commander wrong. His, the Afghanistan commander's, name is General McKiernan. McClelen was a civil war general [but honestly I don't hold that against her, at least she tried].
Said Obama had voted against funding the troops. Well if Obama did then so did McCain... (quoting biden) "With regard to Barack Obama not quote funding the troops, John McCain voted the exact same way. John McCain voted against funding the troops because of an amendment he voted against had a time line in it to draw down American troops. And John said I’m not going to fund the troops if in fact there’s a time line."
Biden is factually correct. McCain voted against one version and Obama voted against the other. The only difference is McCain's version got passed.
Sarah Palin then said a bunch of other crap about Biden and obama not supporting the troops. Granted some of that stuff is true. However, I would like YOU to read my P.S. at the end of this letter for the over 20 times McCain has abandoned the troops and screwed over vets. And I will even give you the exact bills he voted against.
She made misstatements about Darfur, she said she lead the divestment fight to remove all holding in government plans in the Sudan... she opposed it.
Global Warming was a flip-flop for her, I agree that its human made. She just seems to think curbing the human affects on the environment wont make a difference is all.
A non-existent natural gas pipeline in Alaska (not yet under construction)
She even endorsed Cheney's unprecedented vice presidential powers. She said the constitution allowed more then just the VP to vote in a tie breaker in the senate, preside over it, and be next in line for the presidency. I checked, it doesn't. In an interview [ABC News interview /w Katie] she even said the only big mistake he made was shooting his friend in the face in the hunting incident.
And I am sure I a missing a lot of factual errors. Now I could state a lot of polling that shows she lost in the eyes of Americans, but I do belove thats BS. The results were similar to those of the McCain Obama debate. Most thought it was Biden who won or a tie, with a Palin victory a distant third.
My problem is how she is praised with avoiding answering hard questions or things she doesn't have prepared remarks for. These debates are one of the few times you can see, before being elected, how someone reacts to uprise issues or challenges. You don't see them on soft ball interviews (being asked to name a newspaper you read regularly is not a hard question) and these political events they throw are quite staralized for the candidate's benefit. So you are praising her for avoiding what she doesnt want to deal with, and thats what I take away from this. If something hard comes up she will avoid it or go to one of the dozen "in case of emergency" plans she has been told about. This just proves she cant quickly switch from topic to topic and bring information that isn't in the forefront of your mind. This isn't good people.
Here is an example from the debate:
She was asked a question on when the USA would use a nuclear device. What constitutes imminent threat? Would someone have to launch first? Something not many people have to think about, but if you are going to be "a heart beat" away from the presidency, its a good idea to think about what may happen if someone is lobing nukes around.
What she said is that it would be the "be all and end all" for so many people and places around the world. mumbled around. then started talking about others getting nukes. Not even a real attempt at a transition or to even answer the question and move on to what she could feel as a more pressing issue.
She was a talking point AD repeating machine that couldn't come up with well thought out positions or ideas that she didn't consider or have scripted before going on stage. When you have to make executive decisions, you WILL spend some time as president (for example Dick Cheney has been acting president of the United States several times as Bush went through medical exams or procedures), I want a well thought out plan when you start rattling off orders. You can change it and tweak it as you get more better information, but I want some thought behind decisions when you start making them. Is that to much to ask? Judging from this debate, it could vary well be.
Sorry for ranting everyone, but I just haven't seen someone so clueless since I have seen Bush debate... and don't get me wrong both had a time when they could debate (ironically both when they were running for Governor), but for some reason when it comes to the national stage they just collapse to feel good moments and a hail storm of factual inaccuracies.
FYI: Before you say the moderator was in the tank for Obama because she is writing a book on him.. she isn't. She is writing a book on the new wave of black politicizations coming into the system and how they are different from the Jessy Jackson era. And yes one of the chapters is on Barack. And no the McCain campaign did know about the book. Yes, they knew about it two weeks before she was selected by both campaigns to moderate this debate. No the McCain campaign didn't object then. Yes, they objected a few days before the debate.
P.S.
McCain's "support" for the troops:
He has voted against funding veterans health care in 2004, 2005, 2006,2007. (Greenville News, 12/12/2007; S.Amdt. 2745 to S.C.R. 95, Vote 40, 3/10/04; Senate S.C.R. 18, Vote 55, 3/16/05; S.Amdt. 3007 to S.C.R. 83, Vote 41, 3/14/06; H.R. 1591, Vote 126, 3/29/07)
He has voted at least 28 times against veterans benefit bills and VA health care since arriving in the senate in 1987. (2006 Senate Vote #7, 41, 63, 67, 98, 222; 2005 Senate Votes #55, 89, 90, 251, 343; 2004 Senate Votes #40, 48, 145; 2003 Senate Votes #74, 81, 83; 1999 Senate Vote #328; 1998 Senate Vote #175; 1997 Senate Vote #168; 1996 Senate Votes #115, 275; 1995 Senate Votes #76, 226, 466; 1994 Senate Vote #306; 1992 Senate Vote #194; 1991 Senate Vote #259)
In 1991 he voted against automatic cost of living adjustments for vets. (S. 869, Vote 259, 11/20/91)
In 1995 he voted to underfund the department of veterans affairs by $8.9 billion. (H.R. 2099, Vote 470, 9/27/95)
He opposed spending an additional $13 billion in funding for veterans programs. (S.C.R. 57, Vote 115, 5/16/96)
In 1999 he was one of just five senators to vote against $44.3 billion for the VA department along with a few other agencies. (H.R. 2684, Vote 328, 10/15/99)
In 2000 when a bill similar to the one above (but went 100% to the VA) was introduced, he was one of 8 to vote against it. This was $47 Billion for the department of veterans affairs. (H.R. 4635, Vote 272, 10/12/00)
In 2001 the republicans bundled the VA bill with federal housing, FEMA, the EPA, and NASA. He voted against both the original conference report version of the bill and the latter clustered version. (H.R. 2620, Vote 334, 11/8/01; Vote 269, 8/2/01)
In 2004 he voted against that years VA bill which amounted to $122.7 Billion for the Dep. V.A. along with urban housing and related programs. (S. 2020, S.Amdt. 2634, Vote 343, 11/17/05)
In 2005 he voted against a clean bill that would give $500 million a year, from 2006 to 2010, to try and deal with the rising tide of: suicides, PTSD, and other mental health issues from vets returning from multiple tours of duty. Again, he vetoed it. (S. 2020, S.Amdt. 2634, Vote 343, 11/17/05)
In 2006 he voted against a dedicated funding stream for Veteran's health care that would adjust to inflation and changes in the population (ie changes in locations, changes in age, etc). (S.Amdt. 3141 to S.C.R. 83, Vote 63, 3/16/06)
Same year he was one of 13 people to vote against an additional $400 million for vet health care. (S.Amdt. 3642 to H.R. 4939, Vote 98, 4/26/06)
McCain opposed an amendment that would prevent the outsourcing of jobs in the VA system to outside contractors or foreign organizations. (S.Amdt. 2673 to H.R. 2642, Vote 315, 9/6/07)
Recently McCain vocally opposed the 21st century GI bill. Many of you have heard that he opposed the original version because it didn't allow transferring to spouses, which it actually did since it was an amendment onto a bill that already allowed that and did not void or alter that provision. The real reason? McCain said he opposes the bill because he thinks the generous benefits would "encourage more people to leave the military." In reality the same GAO study he quoted said this loss would be offset by new people entering the system to get these benefits. Furthermore when there was overwhelming bi-partisan support for the final version of the bill, he left town rather then vote against it. (S.Amdt. 4803 to H.R. 2642, Vote 137, 5/22/08; Chattanooga Times Free Press, 6/2/08; Boston Globe, 5/23/08; ABCNews.com, 5/26/08)
McCain voted to oppose the establishment of a 1 billion dollar trust fund to improve medical facilities and update the care the VA system provides. (S.Amdt. 2735 to S.Amdt. 2707 to H.R. 4297, Vote 7, 2/2/06)
McCain has voted many times to stop minimum downtime requirements to allow our troops to rest and unwind from their tours of duty repeatedly. Instead he supports rapid deployments with less down time then ever before in american history. (S.Amdt.. 2909 to S.Amdt. 2011 to HR 1585, Vote 341, 9/19/07; S.Amdt. 2012 to S.Amdt. 2011 to HR 1585, Vote 241, 7/11/07)
McCain, a former POW, voted against a bill that would prevent the CIA from using forms of interrogation that are dreamed under the US army field manual, international law, US history, and his own experience... as torture. Many of these same tactics; such as water boarding, stress positions, etc; were used on him when he was a POW. (H.R. 2082, Vote 22, 2/13/08)
Furthermore the following nonpartisan veteran groups give McCain poor ratings:
The Disabled American Veterans group [Formed in 1920 and chartered by Congress in 1932, the million-member DAV is the official voice of America's service-connected disabled veterans -- a strong, insistent voice that represents all of America's 2.1 million disabled veterans, their families and survivors.] give John McCain a 20% voting record on vets issues. Obama is at 80%. Don't believe me? go to DAV.org
In the 2006 Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans for America [Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America Action Fund, a nonprofit, non-partisan 501c(4), dedicated to improving the lives of Iraq and Afghanistan veterans through issue advocacy.] Give McCain a "D" rating. Obama has a "B+". Don't believe me? http://www.iava.org/full-ratings-list
Even the Vietnam Veterans of America have said he has recently voted against them 15 times. He is even a member of their organization. [http://vva.capwiz.com/election/candidate/id/146053]
In the past McCain has said he has been given awards by many veterans groups [ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzr3pdXqZ98&eurl ]. So far none of these check out.
1) DAV and the VFW dont endorse candidates, they have a policy of being non-partisan and not endorsing people. The VFW DOES have a political wing though, and they have endorsed McCain in the past. However to say the large VFW organization that tracks and rates veterans issues endorses you... is false.
2) One of the awards he has quoted in the past.... doesn't exist!
3) all of the awards he has received from vets organizations were in the first half of the 1990s... before his wave of vetoing vet legislation regularly.
Some people seem to think Palin did well last night in the debate. I tend to disagree because she got may facts wrong and just answered questions with pre-packaged lines weather they fit or not.
here are some examples...
Obama voted to raise taxes on Americans earning more than $42k per year. Thats false. It was a non-binding resolution talking about tax cuts for the middle class while allowing tax hikes on people making well over $100k a year. [source: WaPo, Factcheck.org]
She said mcCain supports bankruptcy laws to help homeowners to avoid foreclosure. False. Today McCain spokesman Brian Rodgers today corrected her and said McCain does not sport courts or the government to alter or re-set the principle or rates. [Source: ABCnews.com]
On the surge she said troops are at pre-surge levels. False, there are still more troops in Iraq now then before the surge. As of the begining of last month there were 146,000 troops in Iraq with about 130,000 before the surge. Bush and the pentagon at that time announced 8,000 will be rotated out by Feb 2009... still leaving more then the 130k before the surge. [AP story "Bush to maintain Iraq troop levels until 2009" AP sept 9, 2008]
That Senator Obama denied the surge was a success. Mostly false, He said that the military tactic of the surge was "beyond [his] wildest dreams" a success but the goal was to ensure an environment in which the Iraqi government could work on making progress towards a stable safe state. There has been little progress on this front and even some backsliding with the Kurdish north now independently excersizing and entering into agreements with companies and foreign governments beyond their constitutional authority. [1st presidential debate, multiple times on the stump]
She said the Afghanistan commander says an Iraq style surge would work in Afghanistan after her opponent said he didn't. Palin was wrong, he said the posit and General Petraus [sp] agreed with that general's assessment, and even got the name of the commander wrong. His, the Afghanistan commander's, name is General McKiernan. McClelen was a civil war general [but honestly I don't hold that against her, at least she tried].
Said Obama had voted against funding the troops. Well if Obama did then so did McCain... (quoting biden) "With regard to Barack Obama not quote funding the troops, John McCain voted the exact same way. John McCain voted against funding the troops because of an amendment he voted against had a time line in it to draw down American troops. And John said I’m not going to fund the troops if in fact there’s a time line."
Biden is factually correct. McCain voted against one version and Obama voted against the other. The only difference is McCain's version got passed.
Sarah Palin then said a bunch of other crap about Biden and obama not supporting the troops. Granted some of that stuff is true. However, I would like YOU to read my P.S. at the end of this letter for the over 20 times McCain has abandoned the troops and screwed over vets. And I will even give you the exact bills he voted against.
She made misstatements about Darfur, she said she lead the divestment fight to remove all holding in government plans in the Sudan... she opposed it.
Global Warming was a flip-flop for her, I agree that its human made. She just seems to think curbing the human affects on the environment wont make a difference is all.
A non-existent natural gas pipeline in Alaska (not yet under construction)
She even endorsed Cheney's unprecedented vice presidential powers. She said the constitution allowed more then just the VP to vote in a tie breaker in the senate, preside over it, and be next in line for the presidency. I checked, it doesn't. In an interview [ABC News interview /w Katie] she even said the only big mistake he made was shooting his friend in the face in the hunting incident.
And I am sure I a missing a lot of factual errors. Now I could state a lot of polling that shows she lost in the eyes of Americans, but I do belove thats BS. The results were similar to those of the McCain Obama debate. Most thought it was Biden who won or a tie, with a Palin victory a distant third.
My problem is how she is praised with avoiding answering hard questions or things she doesn't have prepared remarks for. These debates are one of the few times you can see, before being elected, how someone reacts to uprise issues or challenges. You don't see them on soft ball interviews (being asked to name a newspaper you read regularly is not a hard question) and these political events they throw are quite staralized for the candidate's benefit. So you are praising her for avoiding what she doesnt want to deal with, and thats what I take away from this. If something hard comes up she will avoid it or go to one of the dozen "in case of emergency" plans she has been told about. This just proves she cant quickly switch from topic to topic and bring information that isn't in the forefront of your mind. This isn't good people.
Here is an example from the debate:
She was asked a question on when the USA would use a nuclear device. What constitutes imminent threat? Would someone have to launch first? Something not many people have to think about, but if you are going to be "a heart beat" away from the presidency, its a good idea to think about what may happen if someone is lobing nukes around.
What she said is that it would be the "be all and end all" for so many people and places around the world. mumbled around. then started talking about others getting nukes. Not even a real attempt at a transition or to even answer the question and move on to what she could feel as a more pressing issue.
She was a talking point AD repeating machine that couldn't come up with well thought out positions or ideas that she didn't consider or have scripted before going on stage. When you have to make executive decisions, you WILL spend some time as president (for example Dick Cheney has been acting president of the United States several times as Bush went through medical exams or procedures), I want a well thought out plan when you start rattling off orders. You can change it and tweak it as you get more better information, but I want some thought behind decisions when you start making them. Is that to much to ask? Judging from this debate, it could vary well be.
Sorry for ranting everyone, but I just haven't seen someone so clueless since I have seen Bush debate... and don't get me wrong both had a time when they could debate (ironically both when they were running for Governor), but for some reason when it comes to the national stage they just collapse to feel good moments and a hail storm of factual inaccuracies.
FYI: Before you say the moderator was in the tank for Obama because she is writing a book on him.. she isn't. She is writing a book on the new wave of black politicizations coming into the system and how they are different from the Jessy Jackson era. And yes one of the chapters is on Barack. And no the McCain campaign did know about the book. Yes, they knew about it two weeks before she was selected by both campaigns to moderate this debate. No the McCain campaign didn't object then. Yes, they objected a few days before the debate.
P.S.
McCain's "support" for the troops:
He has voted against funding veterans health care in 2004, 2005, 2006,2007. (Greenville News, 12/12/2007; S.Amdt. 2745 to S.C.R. 95, Vote 40, 3/10/04; Senate S.C.R. 18, Vote 55, 3/16/05; S.Amdt. 3007 to S.C.R. 83, Vote 41, 3/14/06; H.R. 1591, Vote 126, 3/29/07)
He has voted at least 28 times against veterans benefit bills and VA health care since arriving in the senate in 1987. (2006 Senate Vote #7, 41, 63, 67, 98, 222; 2005 Senate Votes #55, 89, 90, 251, 343; 2004 Senate Votes #40, 48, 145; 2003 Senate Votes #74, 81, 83; 1999 Senate Vote #328; 1998 Senate Vote #175; 1997 Senate Vote #168; 1996 Senate Votes #115, 275; 1995 Senate Votes #76, 226, 466; 1994 Senate Vote #306; 1992 Senate Vote #194; 1991 Senate Vote #259)
In 1991 he voted against automatic cost of living adjustments for vets. (S. 869, Vote 259, 11/20/91)
In 1995 he voted to underfund the department of veterans affairs by $8.9 billion. (H.R. 2099, Vote 470, 9/27/95)
He opposed spending an additional $13 billion in funding for veterans programs. (S.C.R. 57, Vote 115, 5/16/96)
In 1999 he was one of just five senators to vote against $44.3 billion for the VA department along with a few other agencies. (H.R. 2684, Vote 328, 10/15/99)
In 2000 when a bill similar to the one above (but went 100% to the VA) was introduced, he was one of 8 to vote against it. This was $47 Billion for the department of veterans affairs. (H.R. 4635, Vote 272, 10/12/00)
In 2001 the republicans bundled the VA bill with federal housing, FEMA, the EPA, and NASA. He voted against both the original conference report version of the bill and the latter clustered version. (H.R. 2620, Vote 334, 11/8/01; Vote 269, 8/2/01)
In 2004 he voted against that years VA bill which amounted to $122.7 Billion for the Dep. V.A. along with urban housing and related programs. (S. 2020, S.Amdt. 2634, Vote 343, 11/17/05)
In 2005 he voted against a clean bill that would give $500 million a year, from 2006 to 2010, to try and deal with the rising tide of: suicides, PTSD, and other mental health issues from vets returning from multiple tours of duty. Again, he vetoed it. (S. 2020, S.Amdt. 2634, Vote 343, 11/17/05)
In 2006 he voted against a dedicated funding stream for Veteran's health care that would adjust to inflation and changes in the population (ie changes in locations, changes in age, etc). (S.Amdt. 3141 to S.C.R. 83, Vote 63, 3/16/06)
Same year he was one of 13 people to vote against an additional $400 million for vet health care. (S.Amdt. 3642 to H.R. 4939, Vote 98, 4/26/06)
McCain opposed an amendment that would prevent the outsourcing of jobs in the VA system to outside contractors or foreign organizations. (S.Amdt. 2673 to H.R. 2642, Vote 315, 9/6/07)
Recently McCain vocally opposed the 21st century GI bill. Many of you have heard that he opposed the original version because it didn't allow transferring to spouses, which it actually did since it was an amendment onto a bill that already allowed that and did not void or alter that provision. The real reason? McCain said he opposes the bill because he thinks the generous benefits would "encourage more people to leave the military." In reality the same GAO study he quoted said this loss would be offset by new people entering the system to get these benefits. Furthermore when there was overwhelming bi-partisan support for the final version of the bill, he left town rather then vote against it. (S.Amdt. 4803 to H.R. 2642, Vote 137, 5/22/08; Chattanooga Times Free Press, 6/2/08; Boston Globe, 5/23/08; ABCNews.com, 5/26/08)
McCain voted to oppose the establishment of a 1 billion dollar trust fund to improve medical facilities and update the care the VA system provides. (S.Amdt. 2735 to S.Amdt. 2707 to H.R. 4297, Vote 7, 2/2/06)
McCain has voted many times to stop minimum downtime requirements to allow our troops to rest and unwind from their tours of duty repeatedly. Instead he supports rapid deployments with less down time then ever before in american history. (S.Amdt.. 2909 to S.Amdt. 2011 to HR 1585, Vote 341, 9/19/07; S.Amdt. 2012 to S.Amdt. 2011 to HR 1585, Vote 241, 7/11/07)
McCain, a former POW, voted against a bill that would prevent the CIA from using forms of interrogation that are dreamed under the US army field manual, international law, US history, and his own experience... as torture. Many of these same tactics; such as water boarding, stress positions, etc; were used on him when he was a POW. (H.R. 2082, Vote 22, 2/13/08)
Furthermore the following nonpartisan veteran groups give McCain poor ratings:
The Disabled American Veterans group [Formed in 1920 and chartered by Congress in 1932, the million-member DAV is the official voice of America's service-connected disabled veterans -- a strong, insistent voice that represents all of America's 2.1 million disabled veterans, their families and survivors.] give John McCain a 20% voting record on vets issues. Obama is at 80%. Don't believe me? go to DAV.org
In the 2006 Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans for America [Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America Action Fund, a nonprofit, non-partisan 501c(4), dedicated to improving the lives of Iraq and Afghanistan veterans through issue advocacy.] Give McCain a "D" rating. Obama has a "B+". Don't believe me? http://www.iava.org/full-ratings-list
Even the Vietnam Veterans of America have said he has recently voted against them 15 times. He is even a member of their organization. [http://vva.capwiz.com/election/candidate/id/146053]
In the past McCain has said he has been given awards by many veterans groups [ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzr3pdXqZ98&eurl ]. So far none of these check out.
1) DAV and the VFW dont endorse candidates, they have a policy of being non-partisan and not endorsing people. The VFW DOES have a political wing though, and they have endorsed McCain in the past. However to say the large VFW organization that tracks and rates veterans issues endorses you... is false.
2) One of the awards he has quoted in the past.... doesn't exist!
3) all of the awards he has received from vets organizations were in the first half of the 1990s... before his wave of vetoing vet legislation regularly.