Utopia - we'll make it!

[chryckie]

See?! There's a rational/probablistic argument as to why you should be both nice and forgiving!

Link: The Iterated Prisoner's DilemaBegin quote

Comments

[witchnyn]

Over time, we tend to evolve into more forgiving human beings because it's *worth it*!
well...just because we theoretically CAN, doesn't mean we DO. this postulates a reason for the advent of altruistic behaviour, but doesn't necessarily compel or mandate its continued practice. natural selection's a bitch like that. =D

[chryckie]

You don't think that you learn to become altruistic?

Once the prisoners have been exposed to mutual cooperation once, they would calculate the long-term benefits.

Yes, if you look at only your own actions, you should always defect.
However, your best strategy is to convince your opponent to cooperate.
This can be done through example and consequence.

[witchnyn]

oh, i think you can definitely learn to become altruistic - it's just that once you're operating on that cognitive level, it's probable that evolution and biology aren't determining your behaviour very strongly. i'm not sure that natural selection theory can be straightforwardly applied to cultural decisions. this theory offers a pathway to humanity becoming more altruistic, but natural selection isn't forcing them to do so.

[ex_proxima]

An interesting discovery was made when non-communicative PD supergames were tested with actual human beings. Against what gender stereotypes might lead you to believe, women were significantly more reluctant and resistive to cooperative approaches then men. If I remember correctly, female participants would take twice as long as their male counterparts to enter into mutual-cooperation strategies.

Unfortunately, the conclusion that we evolve into good people because it's worth it is the wrong conclusion to make. PD is often described as "tragic" in so far as the strategy that yields the best results (mutual cooperation) is by definition irrational. No matter what you opponent does, you are always better off defecting. While in the long-run you will do better if you cooperate, at any given point in a game, the best strategy is to defect.

In other words, we don't necessarily evolve towards altruism, we simply would do better in the long run if we did.

[chryckie]

I disagree.

Looking at a single instance of PD, you'd be better off defecting.
Looking at an iterative PD, where the number of interactions is finite, you're better off defecting.

But in life,
1. the interactions are rarely considered as finite, and
2. there's communication.

To add to 1, you don't know when a relationship will evolve into something else.
To add to 2, you're better off convincing your partner to cooperate.

I believe that it shows that communication is the way to go. And we are communicating much more than we ever were.

[chryckie]

I said it best in my response above:
Looking at your own actions only, it's best that you defect.
However, looking at *every* action, the best is when your partner cooperates.
You can convince your partner, in the iterative process, through kindness, retaliation and example.

[flexecutioner]

tragedy of the commons, old fruity.

[kingofthule]

Axelrod is a cool last name.

[witchnyn]

now that's something we can ALL get behind.