The Time-Turner Question in PoA

[ciraarana]

This thesis is killing me! Seriously. I just changed the the entire outline. Again. Argh.

Anyway, I'm fighting my way through Prisoner of Azkaban, and the Time-Turner thing made me wonder. You see, as Michael Maar points out in his book, how could Snape not have known about the Time-Turner? When Sirius Black mysteriously vanishes from Professor

Comments

[alisanne]

Interesting theory. I like it. It does make me more kindly disposed towards DD if your second scenario is correct.

And yes, post the drabbles. :)

[ciraarana]

It's a bit strange, reading this scene again because my perception has changed a lot. I mean, when I first read it, I was just out of school and remembered my own share of nasty teachers too well to not agree with Harry on Snape. I liked Dumbledore and didn't like Snape. Eight years and DH later, Dumbledore is a self-righteous prick and Snape a hero, and I'm looking for ways that would make DD look a bit nicer instead of the other way around. Heh. Not quite what Rowling intended, I think. ^-^

Drabbles will follow this afternoon.

[hammil77]

I thought Snape had to know about the Time Turner. In the end when Hermione tells Harry about it, didn't she say that McGonagall had to inform all the teachers about her getting one? I don't recall she said Fudge had to know though. He can't know all the workings in the Ministry after all. I thought it was something only known to those who hand them out.

I always took the infirmary scene to mean Dumbledore was amused at Fudge who was clueless. Never did I think he was laughing at Snape. I didn't think Snape was making a fool of himself either. He was understandably angry and any outburst wasn't funny at all.

[ciraarana]

Oh, did McGonagall say that? Well, then it's clear. If Snape knew about the Time Turner, then Dumbledore's amusement in the infirmary scene was at Fudge's expense. That's good. *nods*

Well, yes, Snape's outburst was understandable and no, not funny, I agree. But, I mean, Snape just stormed off in a rage, intent on getting the truth out of the Potter brat, Fudge is angry, and Dumbledore looks like he is quite enjoying himself? Even if Dumbledore is not laughing at Snape, I find the scene awful. Oh, hey, my favourite student just managed to free his innocent godfather and my whipping boy is beyond himself about that, how funny

[hammil77]

Oh no I don't like that scene either. But then we are always meant to take pleasure from Snape's displeasure, since this is Harry's perspective after all

[ciraarana]

Oh, yes, yes! I hadn't thought about that before, but of course Snape could have caused real trouble if he blurted out the Time Turner secret. Like he did the next day with Lupin. And despite his anger, he didn't. You're right, not a bit unbalanced at all. That's the Snape we got to know in DH: dedicated and loyal to a fault. Gah, I love him all the more for this! ^-^

When I read PoA the first time, I was just out of school and remembered my own share of nasty teachers far too vividly to see anything but in Snape. But I still didn't like the scene. I took no pleasure in his, well, humiliation. In fact, I think, it changed my mind about him. Heh, not really what Rowling intended, eh? *gigglesnorts*

[ladyathenis]

I have the American versions of the HP series, and I know they differ from the UK ones, but I don't recall anything about Dumbledore saying something to Snape along the lines of "telling a white lie" or "create a distraction"...

But yes, McGonagal did write "tons of letters to the Ministry" for the Time Turner on Hermione's behalf, so unless Fudge directly knew about it, it is possible that you've discovered an authorative loophole.
::who knew?::

Another scenario: someone in the Ministry kept it (the petition) from Fudge, and it was never mentioned who or when in any of the books.

Now I'll have to go back and reread that one. It's got me thinking too.

^O.~^

[ciraarana]

No, Dumbledore doesn't tell Snape to "create a distraction". Not within Harry's hearing range. But it's quite obvious that there is a lot going on in the series that Harry isn't aware of. So I thought, why not this?

Fudge not knowing about the Time Turner: well, Time Turners are Department of Mysteries stuff and we don't know how much the Minister has to say about what they do. Perhaps Fudge's signature was really not necessary. Though I would tend to think it was.

Conversely, if Fudge didn't have any idea, Dumbledore's words were a warning to Snape not to go on like he did because that might result in Fudge clueing in.

But in the end, I'm just looking for something that makes Dumbledore look a little less like a heartless bastard. *shrugs*

I really hate his self-righteous attitude. "Why, Severus, you put your faith in the wrong person, now you must spend the rest of your life doing whatever I tell you. What? Grindelwald? Deathly Hallows? But I stopped it, didn't I? Ah, yes, only after my sister got killed. It was such a sad

[ladyathenis]

Time Turners are Department of Mysteries stuff...

Oh yeah! I'd forgotten about that. One little mention of such in the book, and how quickly you forget.
::facepalm::

I didn't think of Dumbledore as being heartless, perhaps in a very tight situation at certain times, and well... he did what any other cunning person would've done to save not only "other innocents involved", but himself as well. Maybe that's just my way of seeing him.

But I will admit that a lot of the things that Harry questioned him about later on (HBP & DH), he kind of danced around the truth. I got the impression that Dumbledore left Harry to finish all on his own without a lot of important information that could have made things easier. I feel also that had it not been for Hermione's quick mind in order to figure out and suggest things, Harry would have been a sitting duck.

Snape still is a mystery to me. HBP left me going "Duh? Is he or isn't he a double agent for both Voldemort and Dumbledore?" That's the impression I got. I guess I'll have to