Review: Torchwood S2 04 Meat

[crabby_lioness]

Or Torchwood's Debt to Irving Berlin

I'm beginning to see some patterns here.  In the grand old Doctor Who tradition, this is the fourth episode out of four where we've had a classic plot from the Giant Book of Classic TV and Film Plots.  The first was "conning the con man", the second was "undercover sleeper agent", the third was "fix the time

Comments

[a_white_rain]

You pretty much said all I thought of this episode. Though hm I'm not sure if Jack/Gwen is sibling-like (though I'd enjoy it that way), because I think they're implying romantic feelings on Gwen's side. Mostly, however, I've been pretty impressed that with this series. Last series had so many good ideas that fell flat, it feels like they're finally following through on the awesome this series, even though there are still kinks to work out.

Still, it's noteworthy that Jack not only accepts Ianto's right to slap he down in public, he turns to Ianto to ask if he deserves slapping down in public. He doesn't do this with Gwen, but with Ianto. I watched that scene thinking, "That is such a 'spouse' thing to do!"
That's the first thing I noticed. It made me snicker.

Oh and thanks for the post on Jack and the Master thing. I have been having trouble fitting that into his characterization, and that fit for me (and I figured the writers knew it was a bit wtf with the comments on 'you do have a heart').

[crabby_lioness]

You pretty much said all I thought of this episode. Though hm I'm not sure if Jack/Gwen is sibling-like (though I'd enjoy it that way), because I think they're implying romantic feelings on Gwen's side. Mostly, however, I've been pretty impressed that with this series. Last series had so many good ideas that fell flat, it feels like they're finally following through on the awesome this series, even though there are still kinks to work out.

I was thinking more of Jack's viewpoint than Gwen's. As we found out last series, Gwen can lust all she likes, but she ain't pulling Jack as long as she's hanging on to Rhys and he doesn't want to join in.

Still, it's noteworthy that Jack not only accepts Ianto's right to slap he down in public, he turns to Ianto to ask if he deserves slapping down in public. He doesn't do this with Gwen, but with Ianto. I watched that scene thinking, "That is such a 'spouse' thing to do!"

That's the first thing I noticed. It made me snicker.It could reference another type of relationship of course, but it's

[a_white_rain]

I was thinking more of Jack's viewpoint than Gwen's. As we found out last series, Gwen can lust all she likes, but she ain't pulling Jack as long as she's hanging on to Rhys and he doesn't want to join in.
I'm just wondering where they're going with it in long term.

[crabby_lioness]

Going by what they said last time, they review everything at the end of the series and decide where they want to go next.

[eresse21]

I came by this review by accident and was struck by one particular point so strongly that I had to respond to it. You liken Jack and Gwen to close siblings struggling to deal with the knowledge that they are not the most important people in each other's lives any longer. I did see that dynamic as I watched their scenes but the relationship reflected back at me was between my mother-in-law and my husband of 22 years

[crabby_lioness]

I came by this review by accident and was struck by one particular point so strongly that I had to respond to it. You liken Jack and Gwen to close siblings struggling to deal with the knowledge that they are not the most important people in each other's lives any longer. I did see that dynamic as I watched their scenes but the relationship reflected back at me was between my mother-in-law and my husband of 22 years.

That's a very insightful story. Thank you for sharing it.

I think your assessment of all the other relationships were dead on. I've gone back and read your other reviews and find them extremely intelligent, insightful and wonderfully literate. You understand the way people's minds work and perceive the deeper nuances of the subtler scenes and that's something needed when viewing a series like TW. It relies quite a bit on the dictum "show, don't tell". There aren't that many anvils dropped on viewers' heads; viewers are apparently assumed to be intelligent and perceptive enough to draw the right/logical conclusions from

[crabby_lioness]

Thank you. :)

[love_jackianto]

Another wonderful review. For me, Torchwood is about what is *not* said, they actually treat the viewers like they are intelligent and don't hit you over the head with things.

'He's a 1920s - 1940s larger-than-life hero, but he's not totally out of context in RTD's 21st Century. He's got Ianto as the 1940s secretary, Owen as the soldier-medic who's spent far too much time on the front lines, and he's surrounded by 1940s-style common-man heroes.' I do love classic hero types, I've always been a big fan of old movies.

Speaking of old fashioned-type characters, there's Ianto and his growing awesomeness. I have this urge to find all the people who insisted he should have been executed or retconned at the end of Cyberwoman and dance on their heads, crying, "See, see, see! This is why Jack let him stay! This is the potential he saw then starting to awaken! It's so wonderful when the writers let a character live up to his potential we knew he had. We saw glimpses of it in Series 1, and now he's really is much more then Jack's part-time

[crabby_lioness]

I do love classic hero types, I've always been a big fan of old movies.

Me too. :) The first time Jack appeared in The Empty Child, when he turned around and smiled for the camera, some long-forgotten part of me relaxed. Oh, it's Proper Hero, I thought. "He doesn't know it yet, but he will." as the Doctor said in that story.

this is Torchwood after all, and no-one gets a happy ending.

I don't think we've really seen enough to say that yet. A rough ride, yes. But I'm not sure about the unhappy endings.

[love_jackianto]

'this is Torchwood after all, and no-one gets a happy ending.

I don't think we've really seen enough to say that yet. A rough ride, yes. But I'm not sure about the unhappy endings.' I guess we will have to wait and see. Half the fun is seeing what happens every week, and then talking about it.

[crabby_lioness]

Half the fun is seeing what happens every week, and then talking about it.

Yep! :D

[yami_chan]

Hey! I just sort of followed a trail of links here

[crabby_lioness]

Hey! I just sort of followed a trail of links here.

Cool! Stick around, pull up a chair, and look through the Archives. You might find something else you like.

However, I sometimes feel that the series can be a little too subtle. As where there were many scenes that seemed like there were meaningful, communicative, looks between Jack and Ianto... I don't think the scenes adequately conveyed everything you're saying. Which is really my biggest issue with Torchwood as a whole. They're not always perfectly clear.

I love Torchwood for giving my imagination a workout. If they spoonfed us everything I'd have fewer toys to play with.

That said, I really wouldn't mind more Jack/Ianto moments. Not in the least! :)

[yami_chan]

You might find something else you like.

Already have. Fanfics. You're very good. ^_^

If they spoonfed us everything I'd have fewer toys to play with.

No I agree, spoonfeeding would obnoxious. I like when shows are subtle and I like having the chance to be analytical. However, I don't want to have make inferences about, for example, when exactly did Ianto stop "hating" Jack after Lisa and start seeing him as a possible bedmate. For stuff like that, there just needs to be more than a meaningful look or touch, which is how I think the relationship was developed in the beginning. That's stuff that could be a little more clearer. I don't need long complicated dramatic scenes, but more than just Jack putting his hand on Ianto's back in an episode before the Suzie episode is necessary.

[crabby_lioness]

Already have. Fanfics. You're very good. ^_^

Thank you. :)

I don't need long complicated dramatic scenes, but more than just Jack putting his hand on Ianto's back in an episode before the Suzie episode is necessary.

The episode before Suzy had Mary bragging about using her body to get what she wanted and Ianto raising an eyebrow and looking thoughtful in response. "Hello, Mr. Jones!", I said. "And what just ran through your pretty head, and what do you plan to use your pretty body to get?"