Hope in Middle-Earth: A Response to "The Busybody" (CMEM-08)

Mar 16, 2008 14:46

Argh. Celebrating Middle-Earth Month is half over already, and I haven't posted yet! I thought the worst of busy season was over, but then we got unexpectedly smacked with a huge work increase at what I expected to be a slowish time, and the result is that my job's been eating me alive again ( Read more... )

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Comments 8

lilan14 March 18 2008, 20:36:19 UTC
I think that's one great essay, Cress; well done! :)

I think I've always seen Gandalf as a hope-bringing character...maybe in a weird way. I mean, he's not all cheerful and bouncy and "I know we shall succeed!", but his take is "the future looks quite gloomy right now, but no one really knows what turn things will eventually take." I don't know if I'm right about that, but I think I read that as hope too.

Besides...I just don't get an overall impression of hopelessness from the book. Yeah, yeah, the old "it doesn't feel that way"...

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cressidarambles March 21 2008, 03:39:29 UTC
I don't really see anything wrong with "it doesn't feel that way," especially when it comes to LOTR. It's a book which can be interpreted so many different ways.

And I agree with what you say about Gandalf. He also inspires confidence as long as he's around, which is one reason why his loss is such a blow to the Fellowship.

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ladyelleth March 19 2008, 19:19:37 UTC
Here via middleearthnews - this is an excellent essay, and a great commentary, thank you for sharing it. There is one thing I'd like to add.

The Free Peoples of Middle-Earth do know of Eru Iluvatar, who is identified more or less explicitly with the Christian God, and they know the Valar as his direct subordinates. It is questionable whether all free peoples know of Eru and the Valar. The Elves almost certainly all do, the Avarin peoples who settled in the Vale of Anduin (as they initially followed Oromë and only then refused a crossing of the Misty Mountains) as well as the Sindar of Beleriand (their queen was a Maia, so it is likely they would have had some teachings about the Powers). The Noldor and Vanyar are a given ( ... )

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ladyelleth March 19 2008, 20:12:09 UTC
So - uhm. If there are any peoples, human or otherwise, that could be identified as polytheistic, it would be interesting to consider their outlook on hope and related matters. Thin ice? Maybe.

Now, as both the author and you explicitly mention the immortals, it might be interesting to take a closer look at those. The Atrabeth Finrod ah Andreth is a debate of the elven king Finrod of Nargothrond (Galadriel's eldest brother, people who don't know the Silmarillion genealogies that well) and a wise-woman of the people of Bëor. According to HoMe X: Morgoth's Ring, it was written post-LotR and so might well be considered of the same vein where hope is concerned. Primarily, that account deals with the idea of death of immortality in humans and Eldar, but the theme of hope appears a few times.

It is revealed that the Eldar had at least two denominators for the term 'hope'. One is Amdir, that the index translates as 'looking up', and the text goes on to say that it is "an expectation of good, which though uncertain has some foundation in ( ... )

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cressidarambles March 20 2008, 20:19:10 UTC
I still haven't gotten around to reading "Athrabeth," and you've just reminded me that I need to do that. However, I think I have a pretty good idea of the gist of it.

When I posted a link to this article at the Council of Elrond (green) forums recently, someone else commented on the difference between Amdir and Estel. The author stopped by and responded. Partial quote: "Though I didn't spell out the distinction between amdir and estel in this particular article (I have in other places), it's implied just the same...there is Estel in Middle-Earth, but it is very rare."

...if the Fellowship, especially Frodo, Sam and Aragorn - knew of these concepts, they were by no means completely without Estel, because that simply was not in their hands to achieve, create or control, and they knew it.

That's very well-put! You said much more quickly and elegantly what I was trying to get at. Thanks!

The distinction between amdir and estel also made me think that Aragorn's childhood name is especially interesting. He's named for hope, but ( ... )

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cressidarambles March 20 2008, 19:50:03 UTC
Thank you very much for the thoughtful comment!

I don't mean, in my last paragraph, to open up the can of worms that is Middle-Earth religion! It seems odd even to use the word "religion" when referring to Middle-Earth, because their attitudes toward such things seem rather different from what we think of when we use the word in the real world. For example, reverence for the Valar while acknowleging that a greater figure lies behind them seems (IMHO) like a kind of middle ground between monotheism and polytheism.

Perhaps I overreached a little in saying that all the Free Peoples are aware of Eru and the Valar; I think it's likely that they do, but textual proof is easier to find in some cases than in others. The biggest question mark is the Hobbits, of course, as you point out. However, Frodo doesn't seem (to me, anyway) to view Elbereth as a figure alien to his beliefs, rather just as someone who is of greater importance to the Elves. There is also the point that, even if Hobbits don't think consciously and specifically about ( ... )

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roh_wyn March 20 2008, 02:26:41 UTC
I have to agree with what lilan14 says in her comment above. The narrative of Lord of the Rings never gave me the impression of hopelessness, and I concede that I don't know enough about Catholic theology to have a view on the "long defeat" interpretation of the book.

My main grouse with that article would be that hopelessness (or even hopefulness) is not the main point, or even the overarching theme of Tolkien's works. Indeed, I think his writing is much more about choice and man's exercise of free will. That is, the stories are really about ordinary beings choosing the path of right, regardless of whether there is hope for success. They do the right thing because they must, and because they know that the wrong thing leads to certain doom, even as the right thing does not necessarily lead to salvation.

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cressidarambles March 21 2008, 03:43:11 UTC
I think the "long defeat" is an important part of the worldview of Middle-Earth, but I've never believed that anyone in the books viewed it as a final defeat. They don't talk a lot about these things, but there are hints of a belief that one day Arda will be remade, and then all bets are off. I don't know if they have firm ideas about what will happen after that, but at least I don't get the feeling that they think it's a bad thing. It's probably like Frodo's quest--they just press on without concentrating on the ultimate outcome.

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