complex questions with not so simple answers

[cris]

This morning, over coffee, I was reading Metafilter and was reading this thread about a short race/feminism/identity web comic essay called What Would Yellow Ranger Do?. It's this great piece talking about being a minority and having to put up with the surprisingly complicated nature of being asked "where are you from

Comments

[badriyaz]

When I was in more contact with the Middle Eastern restaurant/club scene in the area, I would often be asked "Where are you from" with exactly the meaning above. Not Arlington, but where did my parents' people come from, what am I. I think it was partly searching for a reason why such a very white person was entering their world as much as trying to assign a tribe to me, but either way, it was a good, in the sense of enlightening, experience to have. (plus it made a good conversation starter, because I could then ask people about their home cities/towns/villages, which they were generally glad to talk about, even if the occasion of their leaving was a sad one)

[cris]

yeah, I kind of lament that what can be a question of genuine interest has been perverted in some ways by bad intentions. At the same time, I hope that there's a future where that question is as you experience it: it's a bridge towards investigating the unique amalgam that lurks in another soul, as opposed to easy permission to box someone into a stereotype.

[sirendipity]

This is interesting. I have a general interest in ancestry and the tradition of culture that's passed through familes, so I do tend to ask people, not necessarily where are they from (although, I imagine I've done that at times, too), but what is their last name or where do their ancestors come from... or something less awkward.

I feel bad that others might have taken it as me trying to pigeon hole them into a category in my brain. Is there anyway to actually ask that question without sounding like an asshat? I'm bad at small talk so I usually go right for the stuff that I find interesting (and figure other people do too since people tend to enjoy talking about themselves) - and that generally means asking people something about them.

[cris]

I think the only way that it could be asked of me in a way that doesn't trip my alarms is if it is asked in response to something that I profer. Like, if we were strangers, and talking about the weather, and I somehow choose to mention how "I can't deal with Fahrenheit because I'm too used to the logic of Celsius" you can then ask, "Oh, did you grow up somewhere in the Commonwealth?" "Oh? Vancouver? I haven't been, but I hear that it's a lovely place. How long have you lived in Boston?"

The "how long have you lived ...?" or "what brought you to ...?" if the person has already indicated that they are a transplant, is an invitation to have them tell their migration story. If the person just says, "oh, I moved here for school" but doesn't provide any additional details about ethnic background, then that's a sign that they don't want to have This Conversation.

If, instead, your follow up question were then to ask, "but, where are your parents from?" then my shields go back up instantly. Again, follow the other person's lead.

[belecrivain]

that piece made me so *angry* (and glad that she let go at the end and didn't feel bad about it afterwards) and I thought of you pretty much as soon as I had finished reading it.

(um, keep an eye on The Toast this week. just sayin'.)

I have asked, "May I ask where you're from?" at times when all cultural signs seem to point to recent immigration (taxicab driver + heavy accent, for example) and I'm hoping to be able to speak from French; but I'm not going to do that anymore.

eta: there was a comment on the MeFi thread after you posted this that I found very useful -- basically saying, empathy is all well and good, but if you're not willing to recognize that there may be limits to your empathy / ability to draw from your own personal experience, that the other person may be speaking from experiences the magnitude of which you have never had to deal with, then you're not being helpful.

[cris]

I will keep my eyes peeled, Miss. psyched for you!

there are times when I've sat in a cab and seen someone with a Swahili last name and I get totally tempted to throw out a Hakuna Matata! to show, hey, dude, I've been to your part of the world. But I also remember wincing when somebody mangles Tagalog in my face, so I usually hold off. But, it's such a human urge to make that connection!

[jasonlizard]

Maybe I'm mostly and idiot, but I always assume the best of these intentions. And it usually is predicated on some comment like your Fahrenheit/Celsius comment. However, I think rather than throw someone into a tribe, I'm seeking to see what they find familiar. The range of human experience is vast and most of us think our lives are boring, but most of us are willing to share our own little boring corner of the world with someone who might find it interesting.

[cris]

Maybe I'm mostly and idiot, but I always assume the best of these intentions. Not an idiot. Just privileged. As someone who is part of the dominant ethnicity in your country, you are never asked that question for the purpose of classifying you into an outgroup. And that's great! That's awesome! Life should be more about asking each other questions that find common bonds. Basically, you always get the nice version of the question, not the bad one.

To use the author's metaphor, you are always having the coffee cup handed to you steaming hot and ready to sip. However, there are a lot of people around you who get that cup of coffee spilled on them just as often as it's handed to them. Get coffee spilled on you once and you learn to brush it off. Get it spilled a lot, and after a while you'd rather not drink coffee.

[jasonlizard]

I'm aware of the particular advantages my particular genetics can sometimes confer. But I'm also aware of the human psychology of the 'other' and how it manifests itself in many different varieties. There are assholes looking to put people in boxes they can understand or fetishize everywhere.

I get the, "Where are you from?" too because I'm not from here. Last month I was buying pumpkin in the grocery and a guy asked me where I was from. If I'm in St. Louis I'm sometimes asked where I'm from. Even when I lived there I was sometimes asked where I was from. While not equally offensive, it wasn't a racist statement but a class-ist one.

I think the difference is why they ask. And thus, there are assholes everywhere.

I think a commenter in the comic had it best, why not ask, "Where did you grow up?" Because that's what you're really looking for. In our jet-setting international migration era, to push it beyond, "No, where are your grandparent's from." to derive any understanding of someone won't tell you anything.

[cris]

I disagree with your last point. My objection to the question and the sentiment behind the question is not just that it is dishonest or that it can be rephrased. It is still a request for background information that I do not want to include or factor into the conversation, because that inclusion has led to prejudicial treatment in the past.

The example that you provide is certainly a valid example of classist prejudice hurled your way, but the result is that you are judged based on whether or not you belong to the questioner's class niche. The problem that occurs when this is asked of a minority is that there is an additional implication that, based, on the color of the person's skin they are an outsider not just based on class but on nationality. It's not, "oh, you don't belong in this social group", it's "oh, you don't belong in this country.That is disturbing and distressful enough for an immigrant who is trying to assimilate and find some sense of belonging in this country. It's even more offensive to someone who was born

[ayun]

This is a super-interesting read at the tail end of a trip spent largely on the gringo trail, where you basically spend your downtime interrogating strangers about their background and experiences until you can come up with something you both have in common. It's either 'Where are you from?' or 'How long are you traveling?' (The latter yields more interesting fodder, in my experience.)

[cris]

also, when asking people who've obviously been on the road for a while, "where have you been?"

I mentioned this to you earlier in side email but just wanted to note here in the comment thread, one of the things that I really loved about this web comic was how the author started off talking about her international school and how "where are you from?" really was this neat and magical way of both establishing common ground and celebrating diversity; but then takes you on this journey on how that question gets beaten down by experience as an immigrant in the States. Too often, as this thread has also indicated, the position of the average non-immigrant person is "it's harmless, we're genuinely curious, and that's how I interpret it" and what they miss is that for many immigrants, we know that, we've had that, and we wish it were always that way. But in certain contexts that phrase now means different things to us, and that's sad.