other generations

[cristobel]

I'm reading "The Separation" by Christopher Priest. It claims to be a sci-fi book, and indeed Priest is a sci-fi author he's appearing at Worldcon in August. However, I'm 130 dense pages into it, and it's entirely sci-fi free. It's about WWII and the only sci-fi links are that it's briefly mentions a mass re-settlement of the Jews on Madagascar

Comments

[silverclear]

Absolutely agreed that this is another major difference between generations. And lack of patriotism is something that also seems to seperate us from a lot of other cultures as well as that generation. I find it extremely hard to relate to the seemingly mainstream US concept of patriotism.

Mind, I think that the concept of country is a red herring in terms of war. Wars are more often fought on ideals than borders, aren't they? It just happens that the sides are often defined in terms of countries. From what I've had explained to me from my elders about WWII, they fought for both ideals and borders but mainly ideals. So there was an element of patriotism, that was encouraged and cultured by The Powers That Be, but it was mainly the same as us fighting for ourselves and our families.

Hmmm.

Again I'm getting a bit lost in my thoughts.

[cristobel]

yeah, that's a good point. so, if I'd fight to die for my family, friends, loved ones, but wouldn't fight to die for my country, are there ideals I'd fight to die for?

would I fight for democracy? for human rights? against torture?

what's that old poem about people not fighting?

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

Pastor Martin Niemöller

of course now I can't read this without thinking about A's humorous version about verbs, nouns etc....!

[silverclear]

that poem always makes me shiver.

I've not heard the other version, care to recite?

[cristobel]

it probably won't make you shiver! or maybe a different kind of shivering!

First they came for the verbs, and I said nothing because verbing weirds language. Then they arrival for the nouns, and I speech nothing because I no verbs.
-- Peter Ellis